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Victoria Garcia posted a new Social Media, SEO SEM thread on 1/2/2010

Social Media Doesn't "Work"

Will someone please SHOW ME how social media has produced a client, an account or a project for their business. All the talk is about how it "works" and no substantiation. And, I don't mean isolated situations where nerds are hiring other nerds to expound on the wonderousness of social media. As a marketing consultant, I work in the predictable and measurable. My small business clients can't afford to spend hours and hours tweeting and making "friends" in far flung places. We have to invest in the sure thing, track the results, and refine our efforts. Social media hasn't produced much in the way of results, as far as I can see. It IS NOT like networking, where you meet people face to face...as in human contact. Studies show that only 7% of communication is made of what you say. The rest is tone, body language, facial expression, etc. With real world networking you can establish actual relationships that lead to a referral or a client. I feel a like the little kid who shouted out "the emperor has no clothes!" Social media is going to prove to be the 21st Century's equivilent of Salem Witch Trials, McCarthyism, the Red Scare, Terrorism, and Satanic ritual abuse. Prove me wrong, I'd love to hear it.
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105

William Henderson Responded on 1/4/2010


I agree with your sentiment but you are fighting an uphill battle. Read article (NYT) http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/weekinreview/03carr.html?scp=2&sq=twitter&st=cse
There is the large and growing like minded gen. Y’ers indoctrinated into technology saturated interaction in virtual communities with temporary and anonymous relationships driven by shallow dialogue snippets and viral propagation. Social Media is salve for the insecure. It provides a platform for self absorbed jabber about anything anytime with or without thought or experience in or out of sincerity with purpose of finding a welcoming audience "in the virtual community". The proponents of Social Media "…know the price of everything but the value of nothing". Business owners are mesmerized by the "loose and free" access to an environment that allows them to "market themselves" by saying or claiming anything uninhibited by risk or cost.
For many the goal of participating in Social Media is the casual accumulation of as many ‘friends’ and ‘followers’ as is possible because they are convinced, just like the SPAMMERS that preceded them, that with a proliferation of contacts comes the opportunity to monetize. Nothing (or little) ventured, and so much to gain. This contrasts to building solid and lasting relationships through calculated risk, hard work, perseverance, reputation, sincerity, and delivering value. The rapidity of turnover and frenzied capitalization of Social Media says a lot. Somebody is making money.
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I would say that, social media is popular, but tossing commerce into the middle of it can be compared to the "candle" parties my wife gets invited to (she never goes). There's just something awkward about introducing a profit motive within any social atmosphere. I believe there are more elegant and appropriate ways for facebook and myspace to monetize, there is value there that deserves compensation. http://www.bounceweb.com/ - Bounceweb Hosting 23 on 9/23/2010

 
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/4/2010


Victoria, I hate to tell you this but social media does work, and in a big way. First let me say if you just go at it without a plan, it is a big waste of time. You have to have a plan, you have to educate yourself on what you can and can't do, and you need a system that can automate the repetitive steps so you can devote you valuable time to closing deals with legitimate leads. It will work for almost any type of business too. I do it for all of mine...from Real Estate investing, Architecture, biz startups, and my webmall. I have seen results in a big way once I learnt how to do it right...and it wasn't hard, but it takes time to get trained and go through the steps to set up the campaigns. Once I did this, my client response doubled in about 2 months.
Most important is the concept of attraction marketing...making them come to you because you are the "expert". Perceived knowledge brings respect, and that respect brings clients. I can tell you stories of how, when I used to do seminars as a featured speaker on energy efficiency, I had people running to me to ask for my card to do their house design for them. The SM allows us to present ourselves the same way, only with a much larger coverage, and at a much lower cost...in both time and money.
Social media does work, but you have to know the the right way to do it so it is effective. Isn't it funny how it always comes down to education.
Joe Villeneuve
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
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105

William Henderson Responded on 1/5/2010


JV thanks for your honesty and candor in putting the word expert in quotation and following with that with 'perceived knowledge'. There within your defense of SM I detect a wink and a nod. There is tons of advice and commentary online on how to use SM to "reinvent" yourself. If the brilliance of SM does not occur to someone it is simply because they have not been educated as to its exploitation. By unlocking the secrets you too can gain respect and fortune and achieve stunning results. Please keep in mind the FTC instituted tougher rules (Dec. 2009) that eliminates the safe harbor "results may vary" disclaimer specifically targeting social media marketing. The FTC's watching for misleading or unsubstantiated claim and says they will apply broad liability for those responsible. Wonder what impact that will have on the "wild west" that is the current SM scene?
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105

William Henderson Responded on 1/5/2010


...and now for some interesting developments http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/web-2-0-suicide-machine-application-is-not-painless-for-facebook/19302311/?mod=mktw
Seems once you are swallowed by Social Media you might never get out.
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/5/2010


William, contrary to the assumptions made about the words "perceived" and "expert", SM does work. The point I was trying to make is that the basis for making it work is the ability of the business using SM to project themselves as an expert (that means having and willing to spread their knowledge on the subject). It always comes down to knowledge of what you are doing. The only problem I have with the SM scene is how many people try to sell you programs, without any training. Training is the most important item to make it work. With training, you can easily make SM work for you...even in this "wild west" SM scene.

The fact is, SM is actually the perfect method of marketing any business right now, but it is so new you find the landscape changing all the time. Again, this is where the educational part comes in. If you understand the rules and the marketing systems available, you can easily adapt. SM is very cheap, and highly effective. The confusion and problems with it being ineffective comes from the "word of mouth" education. Someone says, "use FaceBook to market" and you run to FB, get your account set up, and just post things without any plan or reason, and it doesn't work. Of course it doesn't, how can it?

Learn what works and what doesn't, and make sure you have a plan/system in place that is a cohesive system of interaction between all the different SM sites and it will work.

It does work...and very, very well too.

Joe Villeneuve
www.automateyourmlmnow.com
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105

William Henderson Responded on 1/5/2010


Joe V - I take note of the strong points you make. Also, more to the point of Victoria's challenge ...predictions for 2010 Re. Social Media Marketing http://www.emarketer.com/Article.aspx?R=1007446 Marketers will demand better ways to measure impact on brand and sales. eMarketer has a number of statistical articles surveying Social Media users and trending. This is also an interesting article http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/mag/article.pl?id=32875 Cheers.
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Rich Ward Responded on 1/5/2010


Social media has also produced zero for me. It's a huge waste of time in my view. If you want predictable measurable results you have to get in the real world and get out there with a bit of sweat equity and get it done! In my view social media is for the instant gratification folks....give me it now....because I don't really want to do much of anything....end result is zero for your efforts.

I run a discount prescription card business along with offering limited insurance products and my experience with social media has been anything but productive. So called "experts" want to charge all this money to show how it's done and all they do is take ones money, leaving the newbie with zero for results.

What has been very productive for me is simply talking to people face to face, partnering with other businesses and establishing trusting relationships. It's worked that way from the beginning of time. I have to laugh every time I see someone on a social media site trying to promote their businesses. It's a mere platform to get yet bombarded with yet thousands upon thousands of ads...

Good luck to anyone with the social media thing....certainly not for me. I'm with Victoria....prove to me with solid numbers that it works. No one has been able to do it yet!

Rich Ward
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/6/2010


Rich, SM works if it is done correctly. Actually, you made my point with your 3rd paragraph:
" partnering with other businesses and establishing trusting relationships. It's worked that way from the beginning of time." This is the correct way/goal behind SM for business. If you are doing it right you are establishing these relationships you mentioned using SM. You are also correct when you say it involves work. Anyone that says it doesn't is dreaming. Hard work, and education on what to do works just as effectively using SM to build these relationships as the old tried and true methods. SM is simply another way to introduce yourself and your businesses. At the same time you can't just put up a post on some non-business (Twitter) SM site and end your post with "how do you like me so far" and expect results.

Bottom line is if you want success, follow the advice of other successful people...not the unsuccessful. The successful people proved it worked. All the unsuccessful people proved is they didn't do it right...yet.

Joe Villeneuve
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
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Amy Ford Responded on 1/6/2010


Victoria, William and Rich,

I am going to have to back up JV on this one. Being a Gen Y'er myself, I am constantly engaged in social media and would say this is where the majority of my exposure to news and new business comes from. Below is a link to an outstanding article that gives concrete and measureable evidence that SM is working and effective, but here is an interesting statistic:


"Of respondents already using social media, 81% say its No. 1 benefit is generating exposure; following that were, respectively, increasing traffic and building new business relationships."


Overall, the main issue is how can companies effectively integrate information obtained through social media into current marketing campaigns to improve efficiency, effectiveness, strategy formulation, offer formulation and customer feedback loops? Read the article and it may help shed some light on the subject.

http://www.btobonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091012/FREE/910099998

Best,
Amy
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105

William Henderson Responded on 1/6/2010


I noted the report says 72% of respondents "had just started" using Social Media Marketing. The report confirms that SMM is "growing" with more business owners interested in it but I feel there is little there insofar as objective results. eMarketer survey noted a very small pecentage of Social Media users (3-5%) use SM sites for business networking and news (b2b or b2c). This possibly indicates a lot of growth potential, or lack of interest.
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/6/2010


Amy, You hit it right on the nose. Like anything, if you have 100 people asked for an opinion on a program, and 99 of them give all kinds of reasons why it doesn't/won't work (my favorite is from some world renowned expert named "everyone" (as in "everyone knows") and 1 person says it worked very well for them, who are you going to listen to? I'd rather listen to the 1 successful person, than the unsuccessful majority.

Joe Villeneuve
www.automateyourmlmnow.com
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Joe, please call me. richard@government-mailing-lists.com | t: 4165 630-3679. Thanks - Richard Furlong 1 on 10/16/2010

 
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105

William Henderson Responded on 1/6/2010


The report Amy suggested for reading polled 2500 "Marketing Professionals" about Social Media Marketing and a little more than 1/3 of those polled responded. Of the responders, 1/2 was sole proprietors (consultants, etc.). Victoria started the ball rolling here by looking for some objective tangible real world results. What happened to Victoria by the way? Anybody hear from her further? Anyway this has been an interesting thread.
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/6/2010


Wow Victoria Dell made 69 million from Twitter Alone in 2009. I have many clients who are selling more tire, training or what ever they sell. No one ever said it was the way to over night riches. The truth is that those who use it will win. The ones who don't will just have to pay more money to advertise the same products.

We get plenty of new clients online using social media to listen to what people needs are.

I will prove you wrong contact me in five years without touching any social media,blogging or new trend platforms to drive your business. I promise you you will fall of the face of the earth.
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/6/2010


Social marketing is a beautiful thing.

Joe Villeneuve
www.automateyourmlmnow.com
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105

William Henderson Responded on 1/6/2010


Fact check. Dell had Twitter related sales of $6.5 million over the past TWO years according to Bloomberg. Dell says it has 100 employees working 35 channels. I'm guessing they have yet to make a dime on this Twitter action. Dell is a $61 BILLION dollar company.
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/6/2010


Sorry William I forgot the . but you get the point money is to be made and it is early. I bet all the sales offline that may not be track that could have started on twitter, Facebook etc

What is your point about 61 billion? Dell is smart enough to be there. i sure they know something you refuse to acknowledge for your own reasons.

It seams your facts are way off on Social Media and what's to come.
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105

William Henderson Responded on 1/6/2010


We are engaged in debate here not personal attack. My point about Dell is this, here is a $61 billion dollar company with significant resources and after two years and hundreds of man hours invested in the Social Media gold mine of Twitter, they have $6.5 Mil. in sales to show for it. Breathless proponents of Social Media Marketing cannot help but imply (exaggerate) claims of stunning results without providing any objective data because like faith healers most are selling the mystical touch, the exclusive "secret" knowledge they possess, that will transform the bungling wannabe into a Social Media Marketing tycoon. Social Media Marketing is an experiment not science or art ..yet.
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Victoria Garcia Responded on 1/7/2010


Thanks for all the intelligent replies. I don't mind fighting an uphill battle, William. That's how you stand out, by not following the herd. I just want to point out that not one of my successful clients, most of whom are small or medium size businesses, is using social media seriously. It's just not realistic to expect to spend several hours a week Tweeting, or on FaceBook or LinkedIn AND run a business. So, the Dell example doesn't wash. They can also spend $5M on branding and not sell a CD, and they're fine with it.

I've spend over 2 years listening to as many experts on the subject as I can (all of whom I know personally). All the advice is vague. In fact, if you ask 20 social media experts about it, you will get 40 opinions ranging from "put in more personal information, to "be subtle and drop in what you do every so often," to "people have to get to know you, then they want to do business with you."

I can pinpoint exactly who comes to my client's websites, where they originated, even their email address. I can ID the decision makers in a company, get their email and send them an email newsletter, then track who opened it, so we can follow up with them. In short, marketing has gotten trackable and laser focused. Can social media do that?

Social media is like skywriting on a windy day.
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Victoria Garcia Responded on 1/7/2010


I forgot to mention that I'm a public speaker. I'm thinking about creating a presentation called "Social Media Doesn't Work," just to see how many auditoriums I can fill. I think a lot of people are starving for a dose of reality or a counter point of view to all the insanity.
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/7/2010


Victoria,

In answer to your question. "I can pinpoint exactly who comes to my client's websites, where they originated, even their email address. I can ID the decision makers in a company, get their email and send them an email newsletter, then track who opened it, so we can follow up with them. In short, marketing has gotten trackable and laser focused. Can social media do that? " the answer is yes.

Joe Villeneuve
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
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Victoria - email marketing is another avenue of social media. It was/is the first wave. You are already using and getting results from a tool you are bashing. As Joe points out SM in the newer formats such as Facebook, etc. can do the same thing you are doing with email - advantage - larger audience, quicker response, and more narrow target. - Antoinette Raynes 1 on 10/6/2010

 
 

by the way Joe - I am not finding a subscription link on your website. Is there some way to follow your updates? - Antoinette Raynes 1 on 10/6/2010

 
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/7/2010


Victoria you need to look into this further. I think you could fill the room with people who think just like you out of fear of change.

The Media is the message Youtube watch it if you haven't yet.

My social Media Can do that and more people hit the share button or RSS and the message spreads like a rash.
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/8/2010


Education. That is why most people fail at anything new. Lack of education will almost always lead to a negative opinion about that new thing. Negative opinion is easy to spread since it takes less effort to follow the pack than learn how to do it right. I can fill a room with skeptical people, and only have one person that is successful at SM...guess who I would listen too? Why would I listen to unsuccessful people? Why would anyone? I would think that if someone, like the Bloggers School" or myself, was successful at this, and was willing to provide a means to learn how to do it right, people would listen. I'm sure both of us can say that we have experienced that.

There have been questions asked about finding someone that can say that SM has worked for them...well, there are at least two that have provided that answer here. Now the real question is, are you actually asking the question, looking for an answer, or are you just making a negative statement in the form of a question?

SM does work. It has for me, and I'm sure it has for the Bloggers School. My recommendation would be to pursue both of our sites to gain that education so you can become one of those people that learns how to do it right.

For more info you can view this video where you can sign up for a free webinar. They will show you the program as well as answer any questions you may have. It's free, so what do you have to lose?

http://www.sevenfiguremastermindteam.com/previewTemplate/JoeVilleneuve/27/3
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105

William Henderson Responded on 1/8/2010


Victoria, I feel a wholly contrarian presentation to debunk the Social Media Marketing phenom might not draw a crowd. Too many lemmings have already gone off the edge of the cliff drawn by hyperbole, mystical allure, and the coercive persuasion tactics of the Social Media Marketing consultant profiteers. Instead it would be interesting to explore the promise of potential associated with Social Media Marketing. It is widely acknowledged by professionals monitoring the SMM ‘industry’ that results are largely anecdotal. Then I think you have the opportunity to present an effective case for traditional marketing methods and objective supporting data. In the end the audience should be left to decide for themselves which route (or both) would be appropriate for them. You could direct those interested in pursuing Social Media Marketing to the web site links prescribed by some of the forum participants you encountered herein. These posters appear to have holistic universal solutions via web links they so selflessly share and thus far no forum topic has escaped their Social Media prescription for a cure.
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Chris Silvey Responded on 1/8/2010


Dells lack of sales cannot be blamed on SM. The company itself in the IT industry suffers from a very bad reputation which I will point some of them out.

1.They lack proper cooling - underpowered CPU fans, inadequate heat sinks, and poor tower ventalation.

2. poor quality power supplies
3. Motherboards - Often using outdated chipsets, the motherboards are not of the standard atx or microatx design. You cannot mount a standard atx motherboard in a Dell tower.
4. Dells have to be shipped to Dell, or replacement parts purchased from Dell do to the design factors which more or less cuts out most 3rd party vendors and repair specialist.
5. When a Dell goes down so does your business.
6. Dell support is horrible
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/8/2010


There's nothing "holistic" about it. Like anything, if you get bad info or you don't do it right, it doesn't work. I have found that most people want to take the fast track, with as little effort as possible. When you find someone, like the ones that love SM but tell you it can do what you want overnight, I don't follow them either. The ones that tell you it takes time and effort, and provide the education and the tools to make it happen, are the ones that are worth following. Too many people will take the shortcut on these programs too I'm afraid, and then when it doesn't work out, they offer a blanket opinion that since this one didn't work (or many tries at many different ones didn't work), then the system doesn't work...and that, through history, has been proven wrong. The use of SM for business is new. Like any new venture/system, it has its learning curve.

I'll leave you with this one thought. How many of the products or systems we depend on today started out covered with opinions that they were that they were bad and heavily criticized? Your using at least two of them right now.

Joe Villeneuve
www.automateyourmlmnow.com
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105

William Henderson Responded on 1/8/2010


Dell is the 3rd largest seller of computers in the world behind HP (No.1) abd Acer (No. 2) - but noted your point about the shoddy QC/support.
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Victoria Garcia Responded on 1/8/2010


OK, Joe, be specific. How can you tell me exactly how social media can do that? I'd love to know.

Bloggers School...anyone who hasn't got the guts to use his/her real name is in no position to be doing pop psychology "fear of change" analysis on strangers. If you had the first idea of the amount of change that my industry has accommodated, you would feel as ridiculous as you sound making that statement. Call it "fear of wasting time." if you must pass judgment, Dr. Pop Psy. Am I the only one who sees the irony here?

Re: William's comment, this reminds me of the hysteria produced by multilevel marketing evangelicals who promised that people were building zillion dollar empires on the back of water purifiers and soap. Just because everyone is having fun at the party, doesn't mean it's a business tool. You made the statement "It is widely acknowledged by professionals monitoring the SMM ‘industry’ that results are largely anecdotal." I wish you could back that up with an authoritative source.

Joe - so how much time do you have to put into it before it works? A year everyday? 5 years? This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's too vague and unproven. Occasional
anecdotal success doesn't wash in my business (marketing). I need dependable data. I do agree with you that there's going to be a shake out, and a lot of this is going to prove to be hooey. A fraction that is REPEATABLE AND DUPLICATABLE is going to prove to be worthy of investing time and money in.
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Victoria Garcia Responded on 1/8/2010


OK, Joe, be specific. How can you tell me exactly how social media can do that? I'd love to know.

Bloggers School...anyone who hasn't got the guts to use his/her real name is in no position to be doing pop psychology "fear of change" analysis on strangers. If you had the first idea of the amount of change that my industry has accommodated, you would feel as ridiculous as you sound making that statement. Call it "fear of wasting time." if you must pass judgment, Dr. Pop Psy. Am I the only one who sees the irony here?

Re: William's comment, this reminds me of the hysteria produced by multilevel marketing evangelicals who promised that people were building zillion dollar empires on the back of water purifiers and soap. Just because everyone is having fun at the party, doesn't mean it's a business tool. You made the statement "It is widely acknowledged by professionals monitoring the SMM ‘industry’ that results are largely anecdotal." I wish you could back that up with an authoritative source.

Joe - so how much time do you have to put into it before it works? A year everyday? 5 years? This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's too vague and unproven. Occasional
anecdotal success doesn't wash in my business (marketing). I need dependable data. I do agree with you that there's going to be a shake out, and a lot of this is going to prove to be hooey. A fraction that is REPEATABLE AND DUPLICATABLE is going to prove to be worthy of investing time and money in.
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Victoria Garcia Responded on 1/8/2010


p.s. Chris...thanks for your comment, but we're not discussing Dell.
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/8/2010


Victoria, Everyone's situation is different (you knew I was going to say that). I think that is one of the reasons we find people criticizing the system. They try to match the timetable of someone else, without success, and immediately there is the proof it doesn't work. With your experience in marketing I'm sure you agree.
I have 1500 words to answer what would take at least 10 times that to explain...but that is my point. Everyone wants a quick answer...and I find quick answers are usually incomplete and sales pitches.
Having said that, I'll give you a quick story about me. My formal education is in Architecture...30 years owning my own firm. Successful, but I became more successful when I started to use forms of SM/Attraction marketing. There is nothing like being a featured speaker, chosen for your knowledge, and have people come to you to design their house for them. Attraction marketing at its best. SM, in the forms we have today, can bring on the same returns based on making that same contact and establishing you as "expert in your field" to "prospective client".
Web SM campaigns, focused on achieving that relationship, can be a very effective tool IN ADDITION to traditional marketing methods. Every business knows that once you start out the door, you get exponentially further away from a sale with every step..unless you leave them with a way and desire to make contact again with you.

Joe Villeneuve
www.automateyourmlmnow.com
www.conceptsindesigns.com
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101

Chris Silvey Responded on 1/8/2010


Well Victoria, you are quite right we are not discussing Dell, however it did strike a cord with me since I delve in that market.

I been following this thread and saving my comments because this has been discussed before and quite frankly I often enjoy Joe doing all the muscle work.

He is right, SM does work and it can actually work fast if you know what you are doing. It takes a learning curve, a basic knowledge. With SM there are a few routes you can go which have a positive effect, however if you go on facebook or twitter and start spamming your URL it will do more harm than good. However let me stress this. It reaches more people than most email campaigns. It is viewed and not dropped in a spam bucket.
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Chris ... thanks for the laugh "enjoy Joe doing all the muscle work" - Antoinette Raynes 1 on 10/6/2010

 
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101

Chris Silvey Responded on 1/8/2010


Well Victoria, you are quite right we are not discussing Dell, however it did strike a cord with me since I delve in that market.

I been following this thread and saving my comments because this has been discussed before and quite frankly I often enjoy Joe doing all the muscle work.

He is right, SM does work and it can actually work fast if you know what you are doing. It takes a learning curve, a basic knowledge. With SM there are a few routes you can go which have a positive effect, however if you go on facebook or twitter and start spamming your URL it will do more harm than good. However let me stress this. It reaches more people than most email campaigns. It is viewed and not dropped in a spam bucket.
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105

William Henderson Responded on 1/8/2010


Victoria, I don’t understand your challenge point: ‘…You made the statement "It is widely acknowledged by professionals monitoring the SMM ‘industry’ that results are largely anecdotal." I wish you could back that up with an authoritative source.’
Your forum topic was in search for quantitative evidence that Social Media Marketing works. I’m suggesting that besides the Dell results presented here everything else is qualitative (anecdotal) and eMarketer (see my previous post) has framed a trend in 2010 that marketers will demand to see more quantitative results. It seems to me I’m supporting your argument. Have you actually read my posts? Have a nice day.
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Victoria Garcia Responded on 1/8/2010


iIve read your posts end to end William, and i was interested to know where you got the info that SMM results are largely anecdotal. That would support my point that nothing is proven, i.e. quantitative and more than just talk. If that was a authoritative source, I'd like to read it. I'm serious, not sarcastic if that's what you thought.

As for Chris' comment, my frustration in in the way SMM is talked about in vague terms, such as "it can actually work if you know what you are doing." My issue is with the word "work." Work how? To what degree? Define "work.."

This may have been talked about before, Chris, but so far, I haven't heard one single success story. Who in this thread has gotten actual revenue numbers attached to social media?

For instance, one client of mine has gone from $3M/yr to $15M per year with mainstream media and a website, PPC, and an email newsletter.. Another has doubled his business with same. These are measurable results. Voodoo "works," if you believe in it, but that doesn't mean its a substitute for anything real.

So far, SMM has the same track record as praying. I'm sure my clients do a lot of praying, but they can't connect the dots to any sales.
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Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/8/2010


Victoria,
2 months in system I received 5 new architectural leads. Now you have to understand that for my line of work that is big since my projects are long term. These leads were not passive leads but hot ones since they came to me. They had seen my blog, my website, my comments on forums and other social media, my eBook (being reworked as we speak), leading to email and phone connections. Out of the 5 leads, 2 are now clients, 1 is putting together their information for me, and the other 2 are thinking about it but aren't ready to move forward yet.

My cost over this two month period, no, how about the projected cost over a year for all of the items I mentioned will be around $600...my fee per job is more than that. This does not even take into account any future clients that I will get over that same year.

This is for only one of my ventures. The others are about the same results over the course of a year.

It takes more time to get the education to learn how to do it right than to actually do it. Too many people don't think education is important enough to spend time or money on it after they graduate from school. It's a shame.

Joe Villeneuve
www.automateyourmlmnow.ccom
www.conceptsindesigns.com
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105

William Henderson Responded on 1/8/2010


Here is a link http://www.marketingcharts.com/direct/social-media-marketing-still-lacks-strong-metrics-4039/ Cheers.
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William Henderson Responded on 1/8/2010


This report is dated but you may find it still interest http://www.destinationcrm.com/Articles/CRM-News/Daily-News/New-Social-Media-Not-Helping-Sales-53368.aspx
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/8/2010


Victoria here it is I drove a truck before becoming a Social Media business consultant. Now I pay me rent and bills using social media to find clients who are searching for what they need to get the job done. I will continue to pay my self from my efforts online and off. I sell flip camera and many more services and products through affiliate links.

Provide education when others need you they will remember your kindness. It works if you stop resisting. When you see the next trends coming learn about that if it fits wear it.

I hope you see that people are making money doing what they love. Soon employees that you may have will be moving up the ladder of life. This is to be embraced and not resisted.

Watch this video Are you living in the past or in the future.

http://www.bloggersschool.com/2009/02/13/are-you-living-in-the-past-in-the-present-or-in-the-future/
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/8/2010


Marshal McLuhan the Media is the message.

Its about the information not the social media because the Social Media is the tool to delivery that message. This Changes the world entirely.
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/8/2010


Also because of social media I was able to hit the Facebook and twitter share button in this forum to gain traffic off your great Idea and title Good Work I like the way it garbs people in.

I once did a post about George Bush being the greatest president ever. I hated George but the response was huge from people asking how I could say that.
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William Henderson Responded on 1/8/2010


The bottom line is that only 16% of firms using Social Media Marketing actually measure ROI (August 2009 eMarker - study by Mzinga/Babson Executive Education). Instead the derivative intangibles and qualitative advantages of Social Media Marketing are expounded upon by consultants and self proclaimed SMM gurus. These are murky "metrics", difficult to understand and not at all quantitative. There are surely real tools to measure real ROI but obviously few are using them or inclined to use them... and proponents/advocates of SMM are fine with that.
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Victoria Garcia Responded on 1/9/2010


Ah-ha! At last an answer to my question - Joe writes "They had seen my blog, my website, my comments on forums and other social media, my eBook (being reworked as we speak), leading to email and phone connections." Let's dissect this. Your blog, your website and your ebook are NOT SMM marketing. They are INTERNET or WEBSITE marketing, which I conceed works and can work well. If someone is searching using keywords, and those words are in your website and blog, then they are going to find you, read about you...and possibly hire you.

And, internet/website marketing is measurable. You can access metrics which will give you ROI answers. (Caveat: Lots of business owners think they can through some self-built blog or website up, not do SEO and then step back and wait for the deluge...which isn't going to happen).

Those things are not the same as banging away on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, etc. with the exeception that they MIGHT raise your standing with search engines and help to be found. So, are we clear on the differences between SMM and internet/website marketing?

Re Bloggers School...you and folks like you are the only ones making money from SME. There will always be snake oil salesmen as long as there is snake oil.

William, I'm going to check out that those links. Thanks.
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Victoria Garcia Responded on 1/9/2010


Sorry, I meant throw, not through...
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Victoria Garcia Responded on 1/9/2010


You guys have helped me to see that there is a lot of confusion about terms, which is a wonderful insight. It accounts for why there is so much obfuscation.
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Victoria Garcia Responded on 1/9/2010


William...excellent articles, especially the second one. It confirms absolutely what I think has been going on...lots of smoke, no fire. Will you marry me, smart guy? Oh, forgot I already have a husband. :)>
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Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/9/2010


No confusion at all. If you look back at my comments you'll see I stated earlier that there is a combination of items used to market of which SMM is only a part, but that part can prove to be either the starting point or the connection to all the other online media I mentioned.

The idea that having your links out there, through SMM or other online media, to help elevate you on search engines is also an important part.

It will be hard to quantify the direct link between SMM and income since you really don't make any direct income from SMM postings, but you do make contacts, and add to credibility from these postings, and all of that does contribute to income.

Put up a billboard on the freeway, along with other traditional marketing techniques like an article about you or a t.v./radio spot and tell me the exact income derived from each of them.

I know, you can use different tel. #'s for people to call to filter them, but you can use the same concept online and through SMM's. Most people trying to use them (and say they don't work) just throw it against the wall without any of the controls that are used with traditional marketing plans. The problem isn't that it doesn't work. The problem is that most people trying to use it unsuccessfully won't take the time to find out from successful users how to do it right.

Joe Villeneuve
www.thepowerofrealestatenow.com
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101

Chris Silvey Responded on 1/9/2010


Facebook groups work pretty good to generate some traffic. The first group I joined I dropped in my url and received about 130 hits. My use of it is more or less like posting classified ads. You can post locally (with friends), scale it out with your own group(build your group members), or span out more using several groups. So in a way you can geographically post To me it is the same theory.

With the contacts I build from these leads I move them to email, IM, or skype depending if it's a customer or a network partner. I do not like using twitter .facebook, myspace as a com base. It just drives me nuts seeing junk posted.

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William Henderson Responded on 1/9/2010


Where do you all think we are on the hype cycle insofar as Social Media Marketing is concerned? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle
Peak of Inflated Expectations? ...or Trough of Disillusionment?
How long before we reach Plateau of Productivity ...or are we already there?
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Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/9/2010


I think we are just beginning. The future lies in the ability to combine all of the SMM/web based media into a cohesive/complimentary marketing system. This is starting to take place now, but I don't think we've seen anything yet. The future will bring improvements to the media as well as new ideas. I've always been very system oriented, and I think many nay sayers are people that have not taken the SMM/web based media to the max. They take it just far enough to say they tried it and it doesn't work. This road is not something that is exclusive to this discussion though. We have seen, and will see, many topics and other inventions/programs/services go through the same type of discussion...good/no good. The internet itself and the personal computer are just two examples. 20 years ago would you ever have thought we would be doing what we're doing now using the computer? Same with the internet just 10 years ago. Both of them started their life with the same negative opinions. The reason why we are here to today discussing this topic is because there were those that could see the future...and to them it looked good. They worked towards that future in spite of the negativity because they knew what they had and they also knew that 20/10 years ago, those with the insight, could take advantage right then. Today, those that see the same type of light regarding SMM/web based media for marketing are moving forward successfully. Those that don't...?
J V
www.automateyoumlmnow.com
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William Henderson Responded on 1/11/2010


For those businesses wanting to take the Social Media plunge... http://mashable.com/2010/01/11/social-media-integration/
However check out the sentiment in the comments that follow the article in particular the one that describes the 10 Stages of Social Media Business Integration as too ABSTRACT.
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/11/2010


Hi William you still make no point because it cost next to nothing to own and operate. It make room for the little people. Fear not New Media let yourself go. Your way to stiff but you still look young live young adapt and go where the competition goes. Don't let others dream coming true ruin your day, by hating on the Media.
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William Henderson Responded on 1/12/2010


Business persons consider use of resource – like one’s time – as cost, not just cash out of pocket. In that regard business people must determine productive use of resources (time) in order to establish prospects for a profitable return on investment. I envy the success you have achieved Bloggers School. The dynamic following of the many faithful, hopeful, dreamers who have embraced your doctrine are testament to your eloquence, command of language, and transcendent wisdom. I am unworthy.
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LOL! hysterical... thanks for the laugh - Antoinette Raynes 1 on 10/6/2010

 
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101

Chris Silvey Responded on 1/12/2010


Smm is something I have to work on and fast. I have a few web projects that require API integration for twitter, facebook, etc. Something I haven't done yet on any project, but looking at some major sites like NBC.com You have to wonder, so I guess a bit of studying is in the till.

Today I was surfing for theater times for a new movie called legion. Goto http://www.legionmovie.com and you will see on the right clear as day a social networking control.
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Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/12/2010


Chris, you hit an important item when you mentioned the word "integration". So many times I see people think they are using SMM correctly but all they're doing is showing up on the SMM sites. Simply sticking an ad in the paper isn't the right way to use the print media any more than having a page on FaceBook is the right way to use SMM. I say this all the time...
E D U C A T A T I O N...but, too many aren't willing to put in the time or money...and just say "I tried it...doesn't work". There are too many of us that have used it successfully to know that it works. The difference? EDUCATION...proper education and tools to put the training into practice. Then, you must integrate the SMM's with your other marketing media and be consistent...and take advice from those of us who have made it work...not those who say it doesn't.

Joe Villeneuve
www.automateyourmlmnow.com
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
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Victoria Garcia Responded on 1/12/2010


You rock, William. Time is as important as money in my small business world. I can't spend hours hoping that something will pan out. I only have so much time to work with. I prefer to spend it (1) on my website, (2) on my blog (we'll see if this brings in anything, the jury is still oot (3) making referral contacts, (4) real world networking with live bodies, and (5) giving workshops through www.meetup.com.

THE NEW DAY HAS ARRIVED. Business owners want proof that a media they are investing time and money on is going to show a ROI. There was a time when you could not track anything. Now you can obtain solid metrics on websites and blogs. We want the same benefit with TV and radio commercials, and it's happening.

Chris and Bloggers School, you are indulging in "magical thinking." Like when you look out the car windows on a dark night and think the moon is following you as you drive along. Just because you're busy doesn't mean you are actualizing a dream. Dream on, hallucination guppies. I think I'll go make some money.
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/12/2010


Victoria I find your comments Tasteless and ignorant I might even feature you on Helloignorants.blogspot.com I don't know why you are hating on others. It may be because you are losing control. Keep in mind that you had a dream once and it coming to an end. You both spend more time here doing social networking never gaining ground. wasting your time on something you think is a Fade. Well watch me laugh all the way bank while doing what I love and helping others to do the same.

It's magical thinking that put a black president in the White House. The mind is limitless if you let it be. "Time for change" "Yes we can" learn social media.

Blogging and Meetup are social media I don't know who said they are not. I noticed you said in your last post lets see what my blog brings in keep that line of view and I can give you your guarantee right now.


Oh and when social media crashes you can bet your last dollar I will be on the next big thing, Why Because I have no hate blocking my line of view. You see when you shoot a bow and arrow you need to tilt the bow. Why because the bow will block you from the real view of target.

Victoria I am done wasting my time in your nasty environment I am moving on the soar with Eagles, Because I don't like turkeys.

Best wishes
John

Chris lets talk
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Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/12/2010


John, Well said. Oh by the way, while all the negative postings have kept this forum spot active, I have received 7 requests for information that has already led to a new client...and I expect more to come. I want to thank Victoria and William for their posts...and I won't (actually can't) repeat some of the interesting comments I have had sent to me privately about the comments and attitude witnessed here by Victoria and William.

It is pretty funny. Thanks again William and Victoria.

Joe Villeneuve
www.automateyourmlmnow.com
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
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Victoria Garcia Responded on 1/12/2010


Oh, dear! A little too much reality, BS (the one without a real name)? [More irony] Once upon a time people believed fervently in Phrenology and before that the ebb and flow of humours as medical doctrine. And, then there were/are those converts to multi-level marketing, who rush out of pitch meetings screaming "We're going to get rich on water filters!" "Don't poke holes in our balloons, please!" Apparently it irritates the hysterically excited converts.

Honestly, you have shown me one more insight...people who get off on SM are possibly people who can't hang with real people in the real world where disparate opinions might surface? Am I wrong? Could this be true? I'm relatively new to SMM and I don't know the secret rules.

Have fun with it, twitter to CNN hosts, send your friends itty bitty posts on what you ate for breakfast, follow the stars...but don't keep pushing it on everyone else that it has a business application. Joe's above comment excepted...like I said before, devotees selling to devotee wannabees. You're the only ones making money on it. Happy, truly, for you. Make hay while the sun shines, Joe.

It's been fun, guys. Tootles.
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Victoria Garcia Responded on 1/12/2010


Holy Cow! I just went back and realized that Blogger's School was a truck driver and now is a Social Media business consultant. I rest my case.
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Carolina Frederico Responded on 1/12/2010


Victoria!

Since you said you are new in this "Social Media Stuff", here is a hint that you can actually use everywhere you are trying to hang out: be nice, it's not your party!

Say something that you don't even know deeply about "doesn't work" is strait up ignorance, and I feel sorry for you, a person obviously full of prejudice and use to poor judgment. Social Media is not supposed to work. It's supposed to make people work for you because they like or believe you for some reason, because you have something to say and you are truly a nice person. Social Media will never work for you, so don't you even waste your time trying...

Also, yes, Bloggers School founder is a truck driver, and that is exactly what piss of people like you and Rudolph Murdoch, because you know you are losing power, and having a diploma is not a guarantee to be in charge and keep the evil going. It's finally coming to an end... You can't control the information anymore! The content is out there, to be consumed by ignorants like you and truck drivers like John through a lousy Google search. Scary, ha? We are on the same level!

Finally, use the information you took from our site (because we have nothing to hide, we are actually proud of our journeys), and for you to judge people by their struggles or humble origins is just low. That should be out of this discussion, because we never know what life is going to bring. Things can change, and I know they will!

Cheers!
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Chris Silvey Responded on 1/13/2010


Victoria,

A big vocabulary and proper english doesn't make a person intelligent or wise. I find your recent comments rather facist and crude.

Nothing to worry about though. Usually those kind of people burn up in flames one way or the other.

You have to realise very few people have been given a silver spoon life. Very few come from rich families, very few are handed out the keys to success at no cost. Blogger has done everything on his own. He didn't have a trust fund, rich parents or spouse to what he has achieved. We all have to deal with what we are dealt.
It just goes to show you intelligence isn't a birth right and Blogger is just being an American. Going after the American dream and winning. Isn't this the land of opportunity?
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Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/13/2010


Actually, Bloggers route to success should be an example of why SM DOES work. He was willing to put in the time to gain the knowledge that was necessary to get where he is today. How many actors/actresses start out as wait staff (and other "careers"). My first architectural job was designing Inground pools for 3 years while in school. I met many great contacts that eventually lead me to (quickly I might add) owning my own architectural firm for 30 years this March (God I'm old). I started this in the early 80's. Remember the economy back then? The networking and business knowledge I gained from the beginning has taught me the way to success is through education and networking. Wow, that sounds just like social marketing...doesn't it?

Joe Villeneuve
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
joe@thepowerofrealestatenow.com
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Victoria Garcia Responded on 1/13/2010


I'm over you guys. You can't talk facts to recent "I've found the answer to life!" converts. You'll be on to the next big thing as soon as this dies down. Lots of assumptions going on, which reflect on you, not me. Nothing against truck drivers...the nation would probably grind to a halt without them. That doesn't make them fit to give business advice.
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/13/2010


http://www.bloggersschool.com/2009/02/13/are-you-living-in-the-past-in-the-present-or-in-the-future/

Marshal McLuhan the Media is the message.
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Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/13/2010


Victoria, I gave you facts in a previous blog posting.

Joe Villeneuve
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
www.automateyourmlmnow.com
joe@thepowerofrealestatenow.com
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Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/13/2010


Victoria, I gave you facts in a previous blog posting. Let me add to the ones I gave for my architectural business 4 days ago: One of the leads that I had in limbo was a builder out of state (see, SM also allows you to contact/network with people across the country) that is interested in my expertise (energy efficient home design) that he found out from...you guessed it...my blog and other SM sites. That one lead/client will bring continuous jobs over the course of time.
Also, I just got off the phone with another person that I found while reading another SM site that can supply me with private financing for my real estate dealings.
From another posting, and another blog of mine, I made contact with a group across the country that is interested in one or more of my NNN rental lease houses. Since I can assist him with the financing to make the deals for these houses happen I win on many levels.
All of this, from SM sites that I post and monitor. Why am I successful and you are not? I want to be.
Oh, and thanks to this posting, I have added 5 more people to my SM marketing/educational program. I don't make much at all (next to nothing) on that program, but it always leads to one of the other ones...and you're right, as an entrepreneur, I will be on the next big thing, only not when this dies down. It will be added to the other big things I have now.

Joe Villeneuve
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
www.automateyourmlmnow.com
joe@thepowerofrealestatenow.co
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Rich Ward Responded on 1/13/2010


WOW! Nice conversations....I enjoyed reading all the posts. This is off topic but would any one like to partner up with me? I give away a free discount prescription cards that save people up to 75% on their prescription medicines. Savings does vary per prescription. Right now there is a huge demand for our card with all the folks out of work etc.... Here's some objective evidence supporting my claim that there's a huge demand for our card and services. Just follow this link: www.familiesusa.org

To date I have saved people collectively over $193,000.00 in prescription medicine costs. I can send you objective evidence of this via e-mail...a snap shot of the on-line office. We also offer a co-branding option that many businesses, charities and churches jump on. We put their logo on our discount card and they in turn give out the card, help people save money on prescription meds, people remember the business that helped them with a real need... the good word spreads about the business that helped them via word of mouth, and the business gets to earn a nice passive residual income stream, and I get to earn passive residual over rides. I have co-branded with businesses and charities that just love the card. It's truly a win win for all involved. Our card is accepted at all the pharmacies in the US. Been at it 14mo.

Here are some co-branded sites to review: https://www.nlrxco.com/hbam www.NLRxCo.com/WordShopParable https://www.nlrxco.com/abcf https://www.nlrxco.com/aa
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Vinay Gupta Responded on 1/14/2010


hi guys,
SM works. it should be done properly.


I will show you example
1) http://twitter.com/zeustek : this is my twiiter profile , i just created one and i noticed the profile has page rank -4.. so I easily got 1 one way PR4 link
2) check this http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/zeustek.com#trafficstats and click on clickstream and you will see lot of traffic is coming form twitter and digitalforum


believe me you can get huge traffic from social media. and dont forget to post in Digg, delicious , kaboodle, mixx.... and all social bookmarking websites. these are Pr9 and they have top listing in google
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William Henderson Responded on 1/14/2010


Thanks for the info Vinay. I checked web sites posted in this community (JoeV) and find there is virtually no traffic or page views. I also noticed that for a fellow who claims to be so connected through social media, followers and contacts are very few. It is interesting to note that JoeV is associated with, followed by, and complimented by Dearl Brewer (across the many Social Media venues). Mr.Brewer is associated with HealthH2O and Evolv – an alleged pyramid scam involving bottled Houston TX tap water. http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/11/19/EvolvWaterIsSnakeOilCancerCenterSays.htm
It would appear that MLM /pyramid scheming is a favorite pastime for some who claim Social Media Marketing "education" and the "products" they offer will propel small business to the level of success they themselves experience. Information you (the victim) might provide to these affiliate types may end up in the hands of MLM "lead generators" to exploit via countless scam artists and direct sales or distribution pyramid recruitment schemers. This is the very thing the FTC has been trying to address by tightening disclosure rules (Dec. 2009), which are predictably widely ignored by many SMM/MLM profiteers.
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Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/14/2010


William, You're reaching. I focus on quality not quantity...I thought I mentioned that. Also, if you read my signatures (I rotate them for google reasons) you will see the www.automateyourmlmsite.com listed...which tells the world I am associated with that site. That site has a number of capture pages that I use of which they all have different hit amounts.

But, thank you for informing me with regards to Mr. Brewer. I will give you this, he just asked me to be connected so I haven't had a chance to check him out yet. Now that you've brought this to my attention I will drop him from my list.

Joe Villeneuve
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
www.automateyourmlmnow.com
joe@thepowerofrealestatenow.co
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Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/14/2010


William, You do understand how SM works? By default, If I'm connected to a person who has a following of 2000 people, then I have a following of 2001 people since the postings and conversations I have with that one follower of mine can appear on his page and then be seen by all of his followers as well. It works better if it involves a group because that is a very specific group of like minded/focused people that will see all the postings made by an individual on that group's site. You can't measure the coverage of your efforts using SM just by how many people are directly following you.
In addition, as my email and telephone number is also seen by all these people, they don't always go to any one site first...they may just email me for info and a call.
Also, here are the numbers of just one of my current running campaigns. These are a couple of the alternative landing pages: 7, 8, 6, 5, 6, 47 (sign up page). These are unique visitor numbers for this month. Right now my unique visitor count is 113 with my conversion rate at 24.78%.

Joe Villeneuve
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
www.automateyourmlmnow.com
joe@thepowerofrealestatenow.co
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William Henderson Responded on 1/14/2010


Seems most of your 19 Twitter followers are Internet/SMM real estate marketing consultant types and United First Financial (a firm your an agent for and have posted a link to) yet another alleged MLM pyramid scheme. http://www.kiplinger.com/magazine/archives/2008/05/prepay_mortgage.html
http://www.sequenceinc.com/fraudfiles/2008/08/23/what-does-another-expert-say-about-mortgage-acceleration-programs-like-united-first-financial/
...but I did blush at one of your followers tweets: "adults looking for fun"; "get laid guarantee"; "my sexy girls pictures" along with tiny URL links I dare not venture to ;-)
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William Henderson Responded on 1/14/2010


http://mashable.com/2009/10/27/social-media-roi/

Informative, and humorous.
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Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/14/2010


William, I find that Twitter is named appropriately. I'm on there, but I rarely visit it. As far as the United First site, your comment about it being an illegal pyramid scheme just shows your ignorance and I'm beginning to see what I would term as malice toward anything on the internet that you don't understand. For someone that has such a disdain for SMM. MLM's and anything similar, you sure seem to be on those sites a lot. I almost get the feeling that you had a bad experience and have decided that everyone associated with this is bad and it is your mission to get them. I'm not saying that there are not people and groups on the internet that are less than scrupulous, but you seem to want to group everyone together that way. Of course you are going to find articles and postings that are negative about many people and organizations, but after doing this for almost 20 years, I have found the internet as a whole to be a poorly regulated place to get opinions from. Any moron with a keyboard can write something negative, get it posted, and it becomes fact...no matter how far away from the truth they are. Your comments about United First just proves that.
http://www.u1stfinancial.net/942764 (my site) has a number of links to some articles in highly regarded magazines and awards that might interest those interested in the truth from some neutral sources.

Joe Villeneuve
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
www.automateyourmlmnow.com
joe@thepowerofrealestatenow.com
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/14/2010


William When are you and Victoria going to live happy ever after. Maybe you can go where there are no computers or changes to fear.

Maybe you should build a time machine to go back to when times were go for you guy. Oh and then please destroy the time machine.

One more thing while your back in time. Please as the president of that time to spend more on Educating Truck Drivers

John Social Media
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lol - Antoinette Raynes 1 on 10/6/2010

 
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105

William Henderson Responded on 1/14/2010


JoeV - I did not post that UFirst MMA was "illegal" pyramid scheme and neither do the links say that. I'm surprised you regard Kiplinger as "any moron with a keyboard". How about the millions that listen in/watch and follow Dave Ramsey who debunks UFirst and MMA schemes and claims - misguided cool aid drinkers all? I think people should check for themselves. I have NO financial/business interest in UFirst ...how about you? How neutral/objective can links from your/UFirst site possibly be?
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/14/2010


ONE MORE THING LETS SEE HOW SOCIAL MEDIA PLAYS A ROLL IN A MAJOR EVENT LIKE IN HATTI.

MSNBC reports social media is driving recovery efforts. Watch it the just said the traditional systems could never work like what the are seeing this early on.

Wyclef Shawn is using text messaging to bring in millions for relief.

But don't worry there is mention of old school tools you guys like it's called radio.

Can your website do that? NONONNONONONONONO

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Bloggers School Responded on 1/14/2010


The world is finally as one. Bad things always happen that bring us together. This time is a different feel real stories from real people. Citizen journalism is on the rise this is what truly connects us.

Social Media is so strong right now the news is all over it right now giving it more creditability.

Mainstream Media VS New Media this is False we need each other Greg Jarboe at SES NY 2009 Enjoy

http://www.bloggersschool.com/2009/04/03/new-media-vs-mainstream-media-greg-jarboe-explains-how-they-are-teaching-each-other/

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William Henderson Responded on 1/14/2010


Sorry BS ...busy right now. I am listening to the BBC on (internet) radio, reading the Wall Street Journal Online, and I have SKY NEWS on VuNow Pod on HDTV.
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/15/2010


At the end of this Gary Vee video he mentions Cashiers, truck drivers and CEO's on the same level for success.

I rest my case Victoria I love Social Media

http://www.consequentialstrangers.com/2010/01/14/gary-vees-thank-you-economy/
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Vinay Gupta Responded on 1/15/2010


hi BS,

I looked into your website, it good :)

your website is missing lot of seo point like no meta tag keywords in many pages, many of pages have bad titles.. if you want to have more traffic and good alexa rank, you need to fix them...

You have lot of content , Google gives priority to quality content and optimized content- Matt Cutts




thanks
vinay
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/16/2010


Thank you very much. Alexa does not matter much. However I do hear you on optimizing titles . Just keep in mind that in an RSS feed the title is all you see so it need to be catchy more then key worded, if you can get both that even better. . What matters is that you write articles placing keywords. Highlighting key worded text to make it more noticeable to spiders to index. The domains even matter in the overall SEO then there are plugins like the All In One SEO below is or Meta tag and more .

http://www.seo-browser.com/index.php?actionType=advanced&saveURL=true



Here is some proof of a few clients.


Here are some examples of sites that ranked without any back links

auto repair queens Google this 5th link or so will be Shimon Auto Repair below is a link

that will take you to a traffic tool. Everything in pink was searched and found. It tells you what browser visitorsused, what search engine and more.

http://live.feedjit.com/live/autorepairqueens.com/

Fashion expert girl 13 year old niece first page for Fashion Expert no back links at all to get there.

http://www.Fashionexpertgirl.com

Traffic feeds are on the Blogs side bar the one below is a full page version.

http://live.feedjit.com/live/fashionexpertgirl.com/


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Vinay Gupta Responded on 1/16/2010


good work BS.

one question ; do we really need to put feedjit in website and play with ui of website or cant we use google analytics .. its more accurate and you dont have to spoil UI..


this is just for knowledge sharing...


thanks
vinay
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/16/2010


John, I agree with Vinay that you have a nice site...but I think I mentioned that before. It's interesting how far we've come in a very short period of time with regard to internet marketing.RSS feeds, blogs, SMM, article marketing, Ezines and more. Not too long ago we were so focused on Meta tags, key words, titles and the like for Google rankings. Although still important, there are so many more things that add to the mix. We can now spend a fraction of what we used to spend on magazines, billboards, radio spots, etc...to get what we thought was access to a pretty focused group. Now, for a fraction of the price, we can reach all the same people and quite a bit more, and the vast majority of them are the people we want to talk to. A billboard on the freeway can be very expensive. True, the amount of people that can see it is very large, but what percentage of them are actually interested in what the billboard says. Same is true with print and other traditional advertising. Still worth the cost in some cases, but at a fraction of the cost you can reach a more specific (large) group of common minded individuals/consumers and other business owners that ARE interested in what you have to say. Express yourself in the form of VALUE to the readers, and you have the most effective marketing you can have. Attraction marketing...and that is what the SMM form of marketing is really all about.
Joe Villeneuve
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
www.automateyourmlmnow.com
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Chris Silvey Responded on 1/16/2010


Victoria: " Nothing against truck drivers...the nation would probably grind to a halt without them. That doesn't make them fit to give business advice."

I had to laugh at this considering all these intelligent people that most people listened too drove our economy to hell. When it comes to business advice I can see who is full of bs.
I base my decisions on facts and figures, not by a sales pitch by someone in a 3 peice suit.

Time to get back to work.
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/16/2010


Well said Chris thanks!!!

Vinjay we use feedjit because we can see what articles work and what does not. It allows are not so savvy clients who will never check Google Analytics. And its a fun way track your efforts.
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/19/2010


THIS GOES OUT TO VICTORIA AND WILLIAM


A NEW AGE FOR SOCIAL MEDIA MARKETING BRIAN SOLIS

http://www.briansolis.com/2010/01/a-new-age-for-social-media-marketing/?utmsource=feedburner&utmmedium=feed&utmcampaign=Feed%3A+Pr20+%28PR+2.0%29&utmcontent=Google+Reader
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William Henderson Responded on 1/19/2010


BS - now THAT is a good post, very interesting. Good job.
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Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/19/2010


John, Great article. Interesting that he talks about everything we've been preaching thus far on this blog. Notice how the basic plan is to actually have one...stating with education.

Joe Villeneuve
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
www.automateyourmlmnow.com
joe@thepowerofrealestatenow.com
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Robert Ward Responded on 1/20/2010


I keep reading the post and following it very closely. I believe I'm gonna have to give BS a try because I'm still lost as last years Easter Egg! It might as well be in Spanish because I know most of the words but when they get put all together I get confused, keep it up guys I really enjoy this thread.

Regards
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William Henderson Responded on 1/21/2010


In todays Daily Stat (HBR) - face time really matters http://web.hbr.org/email/archive/dailystat.php?date=012110
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Ambrin Ali Responded on 1/21/2010


Victoria

There is two-sides to everything and hearing how it doesn't work might be of interest to start a intelligent discussion. Instead of everyone blindly following the herd. I use social media in a manner that makes it more meaningful to me--so it might take a lot of convincing for me to stop using it. Social media has helped me build communities and connect with interesting people. So it depends on what "results" mean to you.

Victoria you seem to have extensive knowledge of marketing and that is measurable. Social media isn't measurable -- at all. People here and all the blogs that suggest ways to promote your self and get 2,000 followers on twitter in a day. The mentality "You follow me, I'll follow you." Or automation, sending DM's that are automated, scheduling your tweets and other Tactics. Exactly what kind of value does that add? I am sorry but if you do any of those things--I wouldn't follow you because you provide no added value to me and just a bunch of noise.

It depends on the company you are consulting Victoria. Certain Industries thrive on these social media channels. There are more topical smaller social networks, aside from the one size fits all (facebook, twitter & linkedin). I am not a phycologist but I recently deactivated my facebook (i love facebook)…but i find I am more happier and less distracted with my work. Yet there is a certain appeal in connecting with another person face-to-face.

ambrin
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/21/2010


Good point Ambrin!!

Anyone who gains 2,000 followers in a day is headed for doom it a false bottom. The only way this can happen and mean anything in the way of sales is Hot Hot topic, Tons of work getting there or Mainstream news coverage.

The programs that promise results may delivery heads but I think slow and steady will win the race.

It's a game of content the more you post the more you get out of it. It's like the lottery you have to be in it win it.
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William Henderson Responded on 1/21/2010


BS - Interesting that you chose the lottery as your metaphor.
The lottery has notoriously bad odds. No matter how many times you play those odds don't change, and it does not matter how many other people are playing the odds remain the same.
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Ambrin Ali Responded on 1/21/2010


Sorry Blogger School I rather be "In it to Win it" by playing games that exercise my brain a little more than a twitter strategy.

Quality, meaningful encounters mean more to me than "Oh I have a friend request on FB or a follower on twitter!"

Blogger School what do you sell?
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/21/2010


Ambrin you are making no sense. To be " in it to win it" means to try new tings like buy a lottery ticket. Cant win unless you buy one correct me if I am wrong. Same is true of life.

I sell content and Knowledge what do you sell? Keep in mind that what I sell cost me nothing but time to learn. It's a win win people learn from us, get social media management, workshops, blog set up and design and I get to do what I love.

Maybe you see twitter as a tool to tell others what they ate for lunch. I have late braking news most don't they are getting their blog post noticed. most people are living a dream that otherwise would not exists if not for New Media. The call it New Media for a reason.

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Bloggers School Responded on 1/21/2010


Ambrin Why do you use a blog and twitter? It looks like to me we do almost the same thing. I see you do Logos so many new start up because of blogs. There are plenty of ways for you to make money in this new market.
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/21/2010


This is from the footer of your blog Ambrin you trash twitter and social media it looks like you are trying to use it for

Reflecting on how this network has already helped with my own brand strategy. Might make a few minor changes to help energize my own brand. 2 days ago


You offer Social Media to your clients, so why the hard feeling towards Social Media don"t hate the player hate the game.

This is from your site right correct me if I am wrong

"I want to be on top of google."
- Fio Client

If you have a website your clients love, the search engines will love it too. Fio will ensure that a community begins to develop around your site through social media strategies, keyword planning, and organic search engine optimization.

. Social Media Plan
. SEO Plan
. Newsletters
. Business Blogs
. Web Site Analytics
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/21/2010


William Henderson
Your words

BS - Interesting that you chose the lottery as your metaphor.
The lottery has notoriously bad odds. No matter how many times you play those odds don't change, and it does not matter how many other people are playing the odds remain the same.

Bloggers School's reply
So how does one win the lottery William. Sorry I have to spell this out for you.
You play that's how.

Let me tell you about odds. The odds are you don't play you wont win. True for anything stop hating on other it only makes you seem desperate to hold on to something you refuse to change. let it go it's OK.
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/21/2010


Sorry you did mention that you use Social Media your just in between sorry again for the confusion.
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Ambrin Ali Responded on 1/21/2010


Excuse me as stated in my earlier comment I never bashed twitter -- I told Victoria that I would continue to use twitter despite a talk about "Why it doesn't work" . I also stated I love facebook. I also mentioned smaller social media channels and even linked Victoria to those channels that maybe fit in more so with small businesses.

You said you sell knowledge. Can you sell knowledge? There is a reason why wikipedia is one of the top websites. Like another user stated knowledge is free and now everyone has access to free knowledge. I was just curious as to what you did. Please don't elaborate on this I know what you mean when you said you sell Content and there is nothing wrong with selling content.

Yes I offer those services to clients who can benefit from such strategies. There is no one-size fits all cure. I also mentioned in my post earlier that Social media can be a great way to build communities and that is what I use it for. I am sorry if you misunderstood me as bashing social media as that statement contradicts what I have stated.
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Ambrin Ali Responded on 1/21/2010


By the way BS i was genuinely interested in what you sold.
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/21/2010


You are right there is no one size fits all solutions. Sorry I took you the wrong way. This thread has be brutal with Victoria trashing me for coming from a truck driving position. A truck driver should not give business advice. Most drivers own their own trucks so arrogant.

That is why I am up in arms. Sorry you look like a great person.


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William Henderson Responded on 1/21/2010


...hey, what about me?
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William Henderson Responded on 1/21/2010


;-p
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Chris Silvey Responded on 1/22/2010


Man I am swamped. I sure would like to spring into marketing, but I am quagmired on sites to build. Landed another Job yesterday, I don't even need to advertise or solicit. Hooked up in a business network and the words out lol. I think I will have to start outsourcing soon.

Hey Victoria - Even a hillbilly like myself rub elbows with the rich.
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William Henderson Responded on 1/22/2010


To write this blog I might post,
So I can tweet and generate the most
Useless links or drivelings I think,
People might click, retweet or host.

Most of the information I provide,
If others really read they'd deride,
But such isn't the case,
As this social media thing is a race,
To see how many friends or followers we can abide.

Of these friends I collect,
How I got them I don't object,
Because the more I have
The better I can claim to know this subject.

Original thought of my own I have little,
I like using others' (in fact, like this riddle)
I use news headlines and quotes,
Recycled content and polls to vote,
Just about anything for steady transmittal.

So do you follow my game?
Just hang a sign out and proclaim,
What an expert you are,
Chances are you'll go far,
'Cuz few know enough to finger your blame.
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Robert Ward Responded on 1/22/2010


Hey I'm on twitter!
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Danny Ussery Responded on 1/22/2010


this is a very interesting thread but i had a few questions and ill start by sayin im only 23 with minimal experience in really anything except being a "scheemer" always had business ideas and please dont critique my spelling or grammer not my strong suit

well any way a few questions

1)whats the diffrence in a billboard and a web page? you cant track how many people seen the billboard and have been brought by it same goes for a web page

2)smm wouldnt it be about the same as fishing you have your pole witch is your actual business then the line would be a link and your bait witch the smm site or page jumping up and down hey look at me look what i can do?

so in theory that proccess could work becuase your fishing its hit or miss may work may not witch is were it gets its bad press, now anyone that goes all in for smm i think is a fool and would be "dreaming" that this can become my business is were people have a problem with smm its the same as a tv spot your fishing in a huge ocean of channels but your so sure that 30 sec spot would bring in customers but with smm your in maybe a bigger ocean but your using a much lager net becuase your post or thoughts stay there for any that stumble upon it

3)why is smm a big issue? i agree with victoria that you guys are basicly arguing the same side smm is a tool but not a get rich scheeme for fast money it is a tool not a plan

4)what is the real diffrence between old school marketing cont'd
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Danny Ussery Responded on 1/22/2010


and new time marketing what i see

billboard=web page
tv spot=blog
conference or workshop=social networking site such as this one
twitter or the like=emails cold calling or newspapper adds

im open to any opinion but they equal the same things just on a much broader scale so really you would need a lil smm or web and alot of old school for a small business but you would need alot of web and smm based tatics for a larger scale mixed with a little old school

i think the ones that succede are those that blend, one extreme or another is destined to fail or at the very most not accomplish what potential is there
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Robert Ward Responded on 1/22/2010


Danny is correct that Social Media is a tool, and it works only as well as the person using it!

Regards
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Ambrin Ali Responded on 1/22/2010


Danny I like your fishing pole example for SMM -- I am not a fisher but played the Fisher Price game and even that was hard! So SMM like a fishing pole -- I can see that.

Billboard and website perhaps...but you can track websites, and visitors, and where they are coming from, and if they are remotely interested. Website provides more interaction than a billboard...I would have to drive to a store to buy the product through a website i can do it right away.

Danny you mentioned a lot of traditional marketing avenues and the web marketing is way cheaper thus worth a shot.
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William Henderson Responded on 1/22/2010


Point about spelling/grammer. Any mention made (other post) had to do with pointing out to someone selling professional services dealing with copywright content. Danny you are not selling your writing services so don't sweat a few typos and loose grammer... it doesn't bother me because I can tell you are sincere and genuine. Does that make sense?
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William Henderson Responded on 1/22/2010


Point about spelling/grammer. Any mention made (other post) had to do with pointing out to someone selling professional services dealing with copywright content. Danny you are not selling your writing services so don't sweat a few typos and loose grammer... it doesn't bother me because I can tell you are sincere and genuine. Does that make sense?
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/22/2010


William you are an Ass and I am Sincere and I am genuine when I say you are a jerk.

Hows that!!!
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Robert Ward Responded on 1/22/2010


And all of the ads say be your own boss work when you want to! Look at what we're doing at midnight on a Friday! This is the life.

I thought this was a Social Networking Site to help entrepreneurs in aspects of business, not for trashing one another.

William; BS; I'm not going to ask you two to kiss and make up, but yall should set your differences aside and concentrate on doing some good as you usually do. Please

Danny, regardless of what anyone says spelling and grammar are important! We all get in a hurry and make mistakes, but we should at least make an effort.

Regards
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Danny Ussery Responded on 1/22/2010


i ment web page not the whole site the single page of product that would be like a billboard on the internet highway and i ment that you can count how many hit to the page true but can you really count exactly how many clients or leads that page actualy generates its like i see the billboard i might stop there i might not but someone cant tell you came there sole from the presence of that billboard just like 1,000 people might see the page but off your 150 potential buyers how can you say they came from seeing that page or another out side form of advertisement and for the grammer part i was saying that becuase im not in here to sell or appear to be smart by spelling and grammer it might put me at a disadvantage less people take me serious if it doesnt look profesional but if some one decides to work or not work with me becuase of "english" edict then there not a person for me to do business with im not about appearance i know my ideas i know i can make them work and if someone chooses a business partner over me due to apperance more power to em i want to work with substance not apperance if that makes sense sorry about the tirade bout english me and school never got along to much conformitory to "english" thats a made up language anyway
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Danny Ussery Responded on 1/22/2010


but back to the topic the way i see it is its new to old but still the same thing old marketing calls, meets, letter,flyers ompared to emails,networks,smm,nad web pages i see "toemato" tomato" scenario same basic principal just more abilities longer distance traveled just like a horse and buggy turned into a car same basic principal same set up just turned biological power into mechinical power does anyone else see that or am i missing something?
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/22/2010


Hey Danny, keep writing practice more. The other thing that has help me is looking at other peoples writings.

We live we learn.
best wishes

John
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Robert Ward Responded on 1/22/2010


I follow you buddy it's called progress and it's a result of laziness. We are always looking for the easiest, fastest, and simplest way to get our instant gratification! Social Media isn't new its just easier to measure now it's been called Word of Mouth for years.
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Danny Ussery Responded on 1/22/2010


but really if you think about it the idea seems like a quick fix but really what takes more effort? i think word of mouth actually is the harder route now adays not the easyiest becuase now your flooded with scamsa and hype and all these other things that turn the people off of what you have to say becuase "its been said all before" and i dont consider it lazy the old says its better to work smarter not harder and instant gratification is everyones goal dont care what anyone says any one that starts a business is in it for the money no matter what way they cut it if they loved it so much they would ask to be paid for the service right? so the "instant gratification" reasoning i think was old school propaganda that cought on it gives people that do things the "tried and true" method a excuse for not being able to compete with a inovator
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Robert Ward Responded on 1/22/2010


I follow you buddy it's called progress and it's a result of laziness. We are always looking for the easiest, fastest, and simplest way to get our instant gratification! Social Media isn't new its just easier to measure now it's been called Word of Mouth for years.
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William Henderson Responded on 1/23/2010


BS - The VC guys were "nice, constructive, and helpful" (you said) in pointing out the area in need of improvement (weakness). You acknowledged the weakness and noted you are working to narrow that gap. That was a reasonable response. My candid mention has instead earned your wrath and in a display of your maturity and restraint you have labeled me an A** and JERK, but to your credit, not "poopy pants" - thank you very much. Do you handle your clients in like manner? Nice Social Media professional etiquette.
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Jennifer Fortney Responded on 1/23/2010


I love social media. It's like being at a cocktail party where everyone in attendance is someone you really WANT to know and do business with. I've recently won a fairly substantial piece of business through Twitter. He located me, we began talking and the rest is history.

I have another client who actually caught the eye of local media which then resulted in stories. All because we interacted with them on her behalf.

It's all about offering valuable content. You don't have to be wired in every moment of the day but enough to add something to the conversation. I slot out a certain time each morning and that's the only time I'm on. Definitely, not one of those people who's on 24/7. You don't have to be. Moreover, you have to engage followers, like friends, have conversations and utilize key words in your profile description so people can find you.

Social media is not the only answer, rather it should become part of your overall marketing plan. It's a small but can be a very valuable piece. It's also important to note that not every social media outlet works for every business. You really have to define your audience and choose the solutions, that some of you mentioned above, that work best for reaching your audience.

The Internet has offered small businesses a rare chance to expand outside of their normal boundaries. The little mom and pops can now sell and send worldwide. It's an exciting time for growth!
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Bloggers School Responded on 1/23/2010


Sorry Everyone for the bad language. Just look at the way William keeps attacking me. Stalking me, Marking my first thread as Spam picking on my Grammar. I spoke admin cleared the spam and then said they love my posts. For some reason this man has hate for me. Keep coming at me. Trying to prove a point. I just don't know what that is.

Also if anyone would like a client list we have one on our blog in the client roll. You can call them all right now. I will not contact them you can call cold and ask about Bloggers School. You will hear how much we care and help others.

Don't do business with William he is not a nice person he tries to bring out the worst in people by pushing their buttons.

If any one wants to learn social media for free, you can listen to our free radio show or read our blog posts. When you need consulting we would love to take the job.

Nice words about Bloggers School and me John Ciampa.


December 14 , 2009 | Posted by Bruce C | In: Long Island Business People Video Podcast

2009’s Most Giving People in the Long Island Business Networking Community!

http://longislandblogposts.com/wordpress/?p=175

What the local news had to say http://www.tinyurl.com/bloggersschoolarticle

This is the last post where I address William I am here to add value to the community. If any one need advice please do not hesitate to contact us

your friend John


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William Henderson Responded on 1/23/2010


When Blogger School started on this board his approach was to exploit it overtly as another marketing channel for his business (my opinion) a no risk no cost campaign. I am a consumer advocate. Challenging John has resulting in progress (my opinion). Susan Vara (kherize five) offers this advice: "Be Genuinely Helpful. Offering a solution allows you to showcase what you do well. People reach out and ask questions … knowing that they will get solutions. This is an opportunity to lend a helping hand and solve their problem without making a hard sales "call"."
John’s initial posts were copy and paste entries arbitrarily placed in all forum topics a common hacker technique. The forum administration provided some guidance to John on how to legitimize his posts which he took to heart. Business is no easy ride. How you handle the challenges can be a big contributor to your success. A SWOT analysis includes Strengths and Weakness. If you decided you cannot accept any criticism because you have NO weakness you are in trouble. If you decided your Opportunity is to disparage those who don’t agree with you as this will win you advocates and that the main Threat is any "partisan" who does not sanctify you or your agenda, you are in trouble.
John does not agree, but our interaction has helped him ...if he stops to think about it and steps back from the heat of his emotion.
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Robert Ward Responded on 1/23/2010


Thats the kind of stuff I joined SCORE for! Thanks all.

Regards
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Chris Silvey Responded on 1/23/2010


I am not sure what is up with you guys, but Will, Riding BS's post regardless of the content it contains doesn't look very professional either.

So I wish you two would come to terms with this cat and dog fight and focus on the threads topic which is in fact more informative and interesting than you two going after each other throats.
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William Henderson Responded on 1/25/2010


Outreach to Blogger School - higher calling: http://mashable.com/2010/01/24/pope-priests-blog/

Peace
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John Radosta Responded on 1/28/2010


The interesting thing about social media is that its not marketing, its advertising. And if you are advertising without first having some sort of brand equity (celebrities, etc.) you'll go unnoticed.

The unfortunate thing is that social media is not all its hyped up to be because the relationships are fake. I don't care how many "friends" your business has on facebook, when push comes to shove, how many of those "friends" would be willing to co-sign on a loan for you? That quickly sums up the net value of social media relationship.

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Robert Ward Responded on 1/28/2010


John seriously?
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Chris Silvey Responded on 1/29/2010


John I think it depends on who you are as well as who are your friends. If you take facebook for example, your direct ties tend to be in a geographical area. There are different routes you can go with SSM.
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Valerie Valdo Responded on 1/29/2010


I recently started building my business through social media. I do believe it works if you know how to use it. As john villenueve has stated. I also like meeting people face to face and do believe that people want to also see one's sincerity in each other. However, due to the fact that simply the form of networking has developed and being used by many many people, I just have fun with getting the word out, to build my business. Online. I definitely encourage speaking to the person once there is initial contact through the SM. Even trying to meet with them in person, if possible. I am not an expert on the techniques on "how to" build using SM, but I just have fun with it. I try not to spend too much time with sm to build my business, because I am not into the tehcnical aspect. As for what works best for me..... Social media or meeting someone face to face ? It may be too early for me to tell, as I have just started with the SM, but at least I det get some bites.
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Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/29/2010


SMM is a tool. It isn't the end all, but neither is a billboard or a business card. Put them all together (and with more...) and you have a campaign. Make it consistent and it is a cohesive campaign...and much more effective. Yes it can be time consuming, but so is any other advertising/marketing campaign/tool. It takes effort to educate yourself on how to do it right, so you are more efficient at it...but that should be common sense. SM works best when used as a form of attraction marketing. Present a valuable answer or information to a question or problem and become a creditable source for more of that same info. As your person to person communication develops you have an opportunity to present your product/service and make a sale. The same concept works for me when I do seminars. I used to do one for Energy Efficient homes as a designer/architect. I would talk for a weekend on the topic at length, then by the end of the day I had more clients than I could handle...never offering my services during the seminar...just information. SMM is the same thing...if used correctly. How to use it comes from education...good education, and tools to make it happen.

Joe Villeneuve, President
Concepts in Designs, LLC
www.conceptsindesigns.com
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
http://conceptsindesigns.blogspot.com/
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Robert Ward Responded on 1/29/2010


Well put Joe, if SMM didn't work I don't believe there would be use for sites like this.

Regards
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Joe Villeneuve Responded on 1/29/2010


You just need to know how to use these sites. I find blogs and discussion groups to be the most effective. Participate in a discussion, send them to a blog for more info, then to your website(s), then contact them direct...and the rest is history. I think where people make a big mistake in using SMM is they think of it a substitute for using their voice and body. It isn't. It is a tool that is used as a step in front of your voice and body.
There's an old saying in the military about putting boots on the ground. You can blow your enemy away with air and naval power, but until you "put boots on the ground" and actually take over the territory you attacked, you haven't won anything.
Same here. Until you put a "voice and face" into your client, you haven't and won't make a sale. It's a total package that's needed...and SMM is a very important part of it.

Joe Villeneuve, President
Concepts in Designs, LLC
www.conceptsindesigns.com
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
http://conceptsindesigns.blogspot.com/
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ALEXANDER RODRIGUEZ Responded on 2/3/2010


HI I SEE WHAT YOU SAYING ABOUT SOCIAL MEDIAS BUT IT DOES WORK BUT THE ONLY WAY THEY WORK ITS BY MAKING A CONECTION AND YOU HAVE TO DO AS YOU SAY MEET FACE TO FACE IM A MARKETER LIKE YOU AND I MOSTLY DO FACE TO FACE BUT LATELY IM ADDED SOCIAL MEDIA AS A BACK UP I STILL PREFERED FACE TO FACE BECAUSE SOCIAL MEDIAS WORK LIKE A 3RD PARTY IT MEANS YOU CAN GO STRAIT FOR A LEAD YOU GOT TO FIRST TALK TO PERSON ON LINE AND PICK INTREST AND YOU HAVE TO DO THAT A FEW TIME THEM YOU GOT TO BE ON THE PHONE THEM MAKE A MEETING FACE TO FACE IS A LONG PROCESS BUT WHAT I NOTICE IN ALOT OF CASES THERE MORE LIKELY TO SIGN UP THE SOME OF THE PEOPLE YOU TALK TO IN THE STREET ALSO MUST OF THE TIME THIS PEOPLE IN SOCIAL MEDIA ARE MORE OPEN MINDED TO A OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE THAT THE REASON THEY JOINT THE SOCIAL MEDIA

BUT I LOVE TALKING MORE TO FACE TO FACE PEOPLE THERES LESS OF A PROICESS ALSO FROM THE GET GO YOUKNOW IF THERE INTERESTED OR IF YOU ARE WAISTING YOUR TIME ALSO IS EASER TO SET UP FOR MEETING SO I AGREE THAT SOCIAL MEDIA DONT WORK AS FAST AS FACE TO FACE ONLY BECAUSE THERES A LONGER PROCESS BUT USUALY THE PEOPLE THAT COME FROM A SOCIAL MEDIA SIGN UP AND USUALY THEY BRING A BETTER NETWORK

SO PLEASE I KNOW THEY HAVENT WORK FOR YOU YET BUT I THINK WITH NETWORK MARKETING EXPERIENCE YOU HAVE A GREAT CHANCE TO MAKE WORK IT JUST LONGER PROCESS READING ARTICLES OR LISTENING TO PEOPLE WHO MAKE SOUND SO EASY IS NOT RIGHT THING TO DO IT TAKES ALOT MORE BUT YOU KNOW THE FRUIT OF YOUR LABOR WILL PAY
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First of all, in forums like this, did you know that capitalization is considered the equivalent of shouting at a cocktail partyand should be avoided at all times. - Jim Grandone 1 on 10/8/2010

 
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 2/4/2010


Social Media is great. There are many forms of it. Actually, I think of face to face as just an extension of it...a very important extension of it.

oe Villeneuve, President
Concepts in Designs, LLC
www.conceptsindesigns.com
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
http://conceptsindesigns.blogspot.com/
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William Henderson Responded on 2/4/2010


A distinction needs to made as concerns the type of business and customer one is pursuing via a SMM channel. Various studies have demonstrated b2b customers acquired at higher cost, and at both higher and lower retention costs thereafter contribute the most to profitability, while casual (low retention cost)and high maintenance customers (high retention cost) though acquired at lower cost contribute far less to profitability. In the SMM study referenced in this forum thread, the vast majority of respondents active and/or enthusiastic about SMM represented sole proprietorships. Some SMM proponents argue that the SMM model represents a superior channel for b2b marketing primarily due to the low customer acquisition and retention cost. Others acquiesce and concede a mixed strategy is reasonable. Clearly business strategy and targeted results are integral in adopting which (or several) channels to pursue.
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Joe Villeneuve Responded on 2/4/2010


William, well said.

Joe V
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Bloggers School Responded on 2/4/2010


I am back we did a whole week of workshops for Social Media Week. NYC. I really love to see the faces on people when they get a new concept, and see it's potential.

This morning we got a phone call from NY1 News they are coming down to Fridays workshop. "Social Media Hands On" is the theme and the lesson to be taught are Twiiter, Facebook set up and better understanding. Any thing each person need to make it happen online in a world of change.

So my conclusion is that everyone who thinks Social Media works does not fear change and new competition they embrace it, learn it and make it work, and share it

It's not the tool it's how you use it.

John
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ALEXANDER RODRIGUEZ Responded on 2/4/2010


it funny to hear people talking agains smm & mlm but this site is smm use by all kind of business to connect them self to others to get clients and to get new people to sign up for there business
partnerup .com is a smm and alot people use it to meet people and busineses it just a extra tool to find right people there is noting wrong with using a additional tool it doesnt mean you stop your original marketing you just getting something extra to help . what wrong with that????
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William Henderson Responded on 2/4/2010


A-Rod thanks for the post and CAPS LOCK off ;-)
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Bloggers School Responded on 2/4/2010


Hey William.

Maybe you should re-brand your self as the Grammar police or spell checker squadron or something like that. Seams like you always feel a need to poke fun at someone about the weaknesses.

We use you in our lesson the other day showing how your site cant be found on Google and why. Your permalinks are shot. Home only reads home, nothing about Henderson consulting same thing as your about page and the rest of your pages. I cant believe you want to consult people in business and spelling when your ducks are far from a row.

Either way the class learned a lot about permalinks and out of date business consulting practices.
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105

William Henderson Responded on 2/4/2010


BS – Welcome back! You have demonstrated that you are without a doubt a master of rhetorical ethos and your acerbic dismantling of my pathetic attempt at a web presence has left me shaken, broken and humbled. As I reflect upon my miserable existence and dubious virtual self worth, it occurs to me I am as a whale’s excrement as nothing sinks lower. My redemption it seems, where it even possible, lies in my messianic conversion and adoption of the one and only truth as professed by you, John Ciampa and your many disciples. In the meantime as a social media leper spiraling deeper into the abyss of failure and misery, as you have prophesized, I will know that I have only myself to blame.
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Stacie Andrews Responded on 2/4/2010


Three points I have not yet read here:

1) Social Media (SM) is another Marketing Channel, like Radio & TV. Period.

Radio & TV took years to reach 50mil. Facebook had 100 mil users in the first 9 months. (to sums it up:
    YouTube
) Why wouldn't you connect with your target audience on a channel that popular? That said a successful biz integrates multiple marketing channels online & offline.

2) SM = Trademark/Brand Protection + Customer Support

You never know when bad press is headed your way. People are faking work history/claiming to BE your company (this Fake profile made 3600 contacts-1115 people contacted them http://www.csis.dk/dk/media/LinkedIn-Threats.pdf ). If you care what your employees are doing online you should care what a stranger is doing with your company online. SM gives you clout, history and a voice. You can further benefit from the ability to provide customer support publicly. If you have a wonderful customer support staff that is valuable & marketing is all about making value visible, memorable & measurable.

3) SM has Measurable hills to climb.

That's why you hire pros. Marketers esp. formally trained, look at marketing as a scientific endeavor. The beauty of SM is that it is online. What’s online can be tracked more precisely than any other marketing in history. If you can't find a way to track it, there is someone who can. The tech. is there. I know. our company uses tracking tech. to improve our clients’ ROI.
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Bloggers School Responded on 2/4/2010


Great thoughts Stacie.

Love point number one.

Why to start a blog for your business? Because since things that use to happen every 50 or 100 years happen nowadays in a few minutes or online, people’s needs and interests
change every second too. Blogs are live and change every time they are updated, just like in the "real world". Besides that, they are fundamentally about content, and to provide good information makes your business get better ranks on Google and be on the first page of search results without paying any money.
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Robert Ward Responded on 2/5/2010


I thought everyone here would be interested in this! It has to do with Pepsi not advertising during the super bowl but, focusing on it's SMM instead. The link is from CNN

Regards

http://cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2010/02/05/roth.superbowl.pepsi.advertising.cnn
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Karen Fischer Responded on 2/12/2010


Social Media is very dependent on your target market in whether it will provide the return you are looking for. I myself as a sales/marketing professional have used LinkedIn and there are many that have made money off of me utilizing that medium and I have gotten leads with several companies as well. Of course that is more the baby boomers social network tool - but it is a good one for certain targets as many CEOs and decision makers utilize that tool in a B2B situation.

If you have a target market of under 30's , then using Facebook, Blogging, Twitter, and even YouTube are ways to get your message out there. As a sales/marketing person, there is no 1 answer to getting a customer, it is about using as many marketing mediums available and the thing is they are "free" to use versus spending thousands on a direct mail and getting 1% return which we all have done - 2-3% if very targeted.

I am working with a start-up who one of their key targets is youth market and I look at my own kids and how they use those tools and how they are influenced. Having a YouTube video with a kid showing how easy it is use a product and telling them the features/benefits in their terms doesn't take $1M marketing budget - in fact most of the most watched videos are not professionally done.

Sometimes it is just about awareness and especially with a small company getting their name out there and not expecting x percent - but is definitely a low cost investment.

Karen
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Jon Smith Responded on 2/17/2010


yeah
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 2/17/2010


Not sometimes about awareness, that is the most important thing about effective marketing...and what SM is all about. Making it work is dependent on education.

Joe Villeneuve, President
Concepts in Designs, LLC
www.conceptsindesigns.com
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
http://conceptsindesigns.blogspot.com/
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Wayne Boesiger Responded on 2/17/2010


Social Media can be very effective when used properly. Driving traffic to your website/blog has to be done in creative ways for this to happen and still be cost effective. When done, it is very effective. Without a plan and executing it, you are wasting your time...I think this was mentioned in an earlier response so I don't want to be repetitive.

Wayne Boesiger
Move Your Site Up/Sound Identities
http://www.moveyoursiteup.com
http://www.waynebomusic.ning.com (a fun, harmless blog about music and life)
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Joe Villeneuve Responded on 2/17/2010


Wayne, Here is the program I use for all my SM education and implementation.
www.automateyourmlmnow.com It looks like it is just for MLM's but it is allot more than that. I use it for all of my businesses and it has worked out fantastic.

Joe Villeneuve, President
Concepts in Designs, LLC
www.conceptsindesigns.com
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
http://conceptsindesigns.blogspot.com/
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Wayne Boesiger Responded on 2/17/2010


Thanks. I will take a look at it right away.
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Valerie Valdo Responded on 2/19/2010


http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1598435173&k=ZZLT44RZR4TF6BD1QEXYVSYZRTIB42YA33CTF&oid=1207722513238

social media is definitely growing!!
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Maddylane Langlois Responded on 2/19/2010


Victoria, I tend to agree with you on many points. Sometimes I feel that social networking takes up so much of my valuable time for so little in return. And sometimes I feel its getting to be a full time job and that I would need to hire someone just to do that part of it. I also like reading the answers and comments form the other members, they are most helpful and insightful, thank you for sharing! I just wish someone would come up with one universal social networking system so I don't have to spend hours spreading the news on my latest miycreations post. There has to be a better way!
Maddylane
http://www.miycreations.com
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William Henderson Responded on 2/19/2010


@ Valerie / SM growing... true but beware "vanity metrics" as in "billions and billions served" what does it really mean to a business person? I'm just saying...
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William Henderson Responded on 2/22/2010


Google Buzz ...the end of SM 1.0?
http://www.christopherspenn.com/2010/02/11/why-google-buzz-is-brilliant-and-deadly-to-social-media/
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Sure Payroll Responded on 2/23/2010


Social Media can/cant work for you depending on your customers. If prospects that you target are not on Facebook, Linkedin, or Twitter then maybe you dont need to be there (yet). I just came across two stories this morning of companies that are "there" and the results they have seen.

http://adage.com/digitalalist10/article?articleid=142202
http://adage.com/digitalalist10/article?articleid=142201

Both are very large companies/brands do show examples of how Social Media can work in some cases.

One future way to target prospects will be via Social Media will be by branding in games like FaceBook/Farmville. You could have 80 million users (http://www.appdata.com/facebook/apps/index/id/102452128776) using your brand virtually.
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Cynthia Schultz Responded on 2/23/2010


Hi all - I'm new and admittedly did not read each reply, and yes i am in the social network marketing business.

I'm sure this has been covered but here are a few things to consider:
Do you as the business owner have the time to commit to publishing the volume of comments, posts and emails to make SN work?
If not, you will get frustrated and like many marketing efforts companies start and drop the effort and call it a bust.
Joe talked about planning - this is key. No plan, no results.

This shift in connecting (why did we all joing parner up after all?) is a shift in how we do business. We all benefit from the online ability to check in, get advice and apply new ideas to our companies.

And the big question when starting any business initiative: what do you want out of it? When you can answer that question, you can decide if social network marketing is something worth your time and money.

Regards,
Cindi
http://www.footholdservices.com
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Joe Villeneuve Responded on 2/28/2010


Maddylane, I see your concern regarding your time, but that just means you're not taking advantage of all the tools available to make you more efficient. I've been doing this for almost 20 years online and almost 30 years in business. I can tell you that there is a way to make SM work for any situation. I used to think it worked for some but not everyone...not true. The different types of businesses just means a different way to use the tools and a different way to use the SM sites, but the system of SM works for everyone. Funny, but it took a few years before I realized I was using it all along, and doing it right...I just didn't know I was doing it right. Once I educated myself on the why's and the hows, I started to make much better use of my time. Now, I can't see doing business in any form, online or not, without some type of social marketing input. I remember when you would hear, "If you don't have a website, you're not in business". Now you almost have to add, "If you don't use SM, you're not really marketing" to that statement. I don't think it is a questions of "if" anymore...just how.

Joe Villeneuve, President
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
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Richard Austin Responded on 2/28/2010


Hi All,

I hate to say it but you are all correct. The trend (that "change" word in disguise) is towards a media that will allow information to move faster across specific demographic markets. And SM DOES just that. There once was a time when people spent HOURS reading a magazine article. That same behavior is still there, it's just online now.

There is an interesting read out there called Membership Mystique (it is also a good Google search phrase, too) that may help you understand the psychology of why people "join" something, especially SM networks.

I write strategic plans for companies and worked on the National Health Information Network (NHIN) and the Consolidated Health Informatics (CHI) projects last fall for the federal grants funding to states to connect all of our health records via a central portal.

We decided the only way electronic health information would really create the changes we need in health care was to get out in front of it with a modified SM network, which we did. The first several thousand "joins" came from India, Asia, and EU because everyone on the planet (but the US) understands that SM (or its modified form) is the future for marketing products and services.

BTB, if SM didn’t really work, you would not be on this network responding to these strings, now would you!

Richard

Visit http://www.hit.rnetworks.info/ or http://www.yamweb.rnetworks.info/ when you can to see how SM is being specialized for targeted market areas.
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105

William Henderson Responded on 3/5/2010


Six Ingredients - in deference to my esteemed colleague Blogger School... http://blogs.hbr.org/davenport/2010/03/sixingredientsforagood_onl.html
All the best my brother, peace.
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 3/5/2010


People participate on blogs and discussion groups mainly for two reasons. Either searching for information, or providing it. The idea is to make a connection between the two. By now I would hope this is a discussion on "how" SM works instead of the original "does" it work, since the fact that so many have participated in this discussion alone should be proof that it does. IF you know how to do it that is. If you're not sure how to do it, start with a "business" profile on FaceBook (free)...not a personal one. Put together a blog (free) expressing your expertise. Join a number of discussion groups (anywhere) on FaceBook, LinkedIn, PartnerUp (???), LoopNet (for real estate), or any other business oriented site. Answer/participate in discussions by contributing valuable information and directing the readers to your blog for more, and the rest should be history. Learn how to do it right, and your return on investment (a minimal amount of time only) will be huge.

Joe Villeneuve, President
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
(free eBook) http://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B8BAFj4u4z6YY2RiYjdiOTMtMGViYS00YjliLWExNmEtNjBkMDJmYzI4NzFk&hl=en
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Ashley Brown Responded on 3/5/2010


emmanuelgeorge.com........... I did there "company of the day" package last week.... business for that day tripple......
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105

William Henderson Responded on 3/5/2010


This was one helluva post wasn't it? Honestly I can say I have gained a great respect for the many who have posted here. It is discourse with intellect. Very refreshing. Good stuff. Testament to free speech and civil dissagreement and exchange of ideas.

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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 3/16/2010


William, I agree. I was introduced to quite a few new business contacts as well as had a great deal of fun. You can't always say that about discussion threads, especially when there are times when the discussion gets a little "touchy". Electronic conversation, due to it's lack of personal contact, can always lead to a possibility of strained feelings...you can't hear or see the other persons emotional reaction to anything. This discussion had the trappings of just that, but due to the class and integrity of the people that participated, at least those that hung around, this discussion actually turned into what I think was one of the more valuable ones I've been involved with. A true testament to social media. Funny, but it actually got me pushed into writing the eBook (I think I mentioned it above) I've been putting off for a while on this very topic. Enough people suggested it, so I gave in and finally started it. If you are interested you can get a free copy of it while I'm writing it from my blog (links near the top). I'd appreciate any feedback, especially since I'm not a writer.

Joe Villeneuve, President
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
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105

William Henderson Responded on 3/16/2010


Joe, that is fantastic. I enthusiastically look forward to reading your entries. Don’t sell yourself short on your writing, I think you are a good communicator, passionate and wealthy in experiences. Godspeed on the ebook venture. I am confident it will be a good productive read for most anybody interested in the dynamic of social media today and beyond.
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 3/16/2010


William, Thanks for the comments. They are very much appreciated. I have to tell you, that I'm glad you will be taking a look at it a I value your critical eye, and I mean that in the most positive way.

Joe Villeneuve, President
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
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105

William Henderson Responded on 3/18/2010


WSJ Article http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703909804575123691040422082.html?KEYWORDS=social+media

Entrepreneurs Question Value of Social Media
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1

Bart Carlson Responded on 3/19/2010


All your facts and figures don't do squat in the real world, The world where you have to look an employee in the eye that has a family to feed and say, I'm sorry, I have to let you go because I can't get any help and business is getting worse day by day. Not that there isn't loads of new business coming, it's that I can't get help to fund us until the work gets here. I tried social networking and all it did for me was give retired/laid off people something to burn up their day. Thank you for wasting my valuable time. I done everything even begged for help on the SCORE Community and SBOC and a couple others and my business has slowly gotten worse for listening to you so called experts. Tell me the name of one small business any of you actually helped turn it around and put people back to work and you'll never hear from me again. Until that day, start putting your efforts in to actually helping people and prove your expertise.
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 3/19/2010


So Bart, tell us how you really fee. Obviously you didn't do it right, or the type of business model you are working with wasn't applicable to the type of SM you were attempting to use. I bet I can tell you what to try if I knew what type of business you are referring to.

It would also help to know what you did as far as social networking. Simply saying your tried it and it didn't work isn't going to get you any type of useful response...that is if you are actually looking for that.

Most people that try SM for business do it without any real education on it. They think they got educated, but it was just limited instruction on how to fill out a form, set up a blog, and website. Then, they wait for the business to flow their way.

I'm sorry about your business having to lay off people...I've been there, on both sides. Just because SM didn't work for you, the way you tried it, doesn't mean it doesn't work. IF you want to know how to make it work for you business let me know and I'll give you a checklist of steps...and I'll even mentor you..NO CHARGE, not that I charge for it anyway.

Joe Villeneuve, President
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 3/19/2010


"...Tell me the name of one small business any of you actually helped..."

Concepts in Designs
3VEnterprises
Benchmark
"My Shopping Mall"
a couple of real estate agents/brokers
a photographer
a videographer
4 brand new business ventures


Joe Villeneuve, President
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
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105

William Henderson Responded on 3/19/2010


Mr. Carlson, there is frustration about the things you cannot control, including the ineffectual (if otherwise well intentioned) advice, opinions, or activities of others, and there is giving up by deferment, attributing all your circumstances on others. I was forced to layoff over 200 workers, displaced by NAFTA and China (outsourcing/globalization) and all I was able to do was help them petition for TAA designation for some training and benefit assistance. There are many examples of so called "failures" only to be forgotten due to the eventual success story that emerged from the ashes. Ironically many successful Entrepreneurs attribute their success to preceding "failures" and difficulties. That is one reason I am skeptical of counseling along the lines of the statement "…so that you don’t make the same mistakes I/we made". Risk is not the reward. Turbulence creates opportunity. Ultimately it is your life and your circumstance is yours to solve so take or leave SMM and business advice as you see fit. Best of good luck.
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101

Chris Silvey Responded on 3/21/2010


Hi Bart,

If your company is in so dire straights I would suggest working with an active consultant who can work with you on a one on one basis.

As far as SMM it is a crap shoot. Those that really delve into it can make it work, but I tend to see it as a passive marketing strategy.

For me emailing and follow ups is a good strategy.
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6

Sarah Maus Responded on 3/21/2010


Victoria,

I LOVE it!
" I'm thinking about creating a presentation called "Social Media Doesn't Work," just to see how many auditoriums I can fill. I think a lot of people are starving for a dose of reality or a counter point of view to all the insanity."

Aweome idea...I admit I did NOT read all 76 posts on the subject; stopped after reading this response from you. But, everyone loves controversy.

Let me know when you make it to Orlando with this presentation...would love to attend! I have been using Social Media for nearly 2 years now, and the best thing that has come from it is getting back in touch with long lost relatives, and making a few contacts with a few key players in my business. But, to be honest, I have to spend way too much time trying to keep it all up-to-date, and have not made a dime from it!

Just my '2 cents' worth...LOL
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 3/21/2010


Sarah,

You're right about one thing...you didn't read all the posts.

Joe Villeneuve, President
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
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1

Tumaini Rivera Responded on 3/22/2010


Hi Victoria,
I haven't read the other posts so I'll speak from the very little experience I do have with it.
I think it's completely overwhelming, which is why I was turned away from it for so long. So instead of fighting against it, I'm giving it a try and I have to say that so far it's "worked" - - for what I need.

When I joined Ladies Who Launch (www.ladieswholaunch.com), I had no clue how I was going to use it or why anybody really needed it. I became "friends" with lots of women and started sending out informational emails because I didn't have anything to offer just yet. The responses I was getting were amazing. I spend 20 minutes a week constructing and sending out these emails. I only send them out once a week. Now that I'm in the business plan phase for my own idea, I have so many questions. Well, I send the questions out to my "friends" and I get great responses and suggestions.

I apply that same "technique" to other sites like MakeMineAMillion.org. I now know what kinds of questions to ask and I know who to turn to for the answer.

Oh, and no one has to spend tons of time on the computer anymore. You can automate your twitter accounts, send RSS feeds directly to your twitter feed, send a tweet from your facebook. If you want to know more on all of this I'll be glad to help you out. No strings!!

I hope this helps

Tumaini Rivera
www.flippinfactory.wordpress.com
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101

Chris Silvey Responded on 3/22/2010


@Sarah
@Tumaini

I would suggest you read the whole thread. Victoria was torched and burned off this forum.
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36

Amy Ford Responded on 3/24/2010


Great fodder for more discussion: Entrepreneurs Question Value of Social Media

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703909804575123691040422082.html?mod=WSJSmall+BusinessLEADNewsCollection

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105

William Henderson Responded on 3/24/2010


Thanks Amy, dejavu here.
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Amy Ford Responded on 3/24/2010


Sorry William, you beat me to the punch!
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Ashley Brown Responded on 3/28/2010


hey guys emmanuelgeorge.com is running a 50% sale on all there packages.... I advise business owners and website owners to take advantage of it!
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1

Ken Hardin Responded on 4/2/2010


This is my company's site, so shameless self-promotion on one level, but this is a useful abstract of a Burson-Marsteller study on how to measure the impact of social media, which is frustratingly soft, to be sure.

http://www.itbusinessedge.com/slideshows/show.aspx?c=78703
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 4/2/2010


It amazes me how many people try to use antique methods of measuring the effectiveness of a program. You can't measure the viability of SM by running it through some type of mathematical calculation. It doesn't work like that. I've come to the conclusion that those who try, really have no idea of how it is supposed to work. One of the biggest reasons why is you can't measure how cost effective it is, when the only cost should be for the education of how to do it right, and an auto-responder...which should cost no more than about $20/month.

True SM uses Attraction Marketing methods the right way. A great example of this is putting a seminar for your company. The difference is, you can have the same (actually much better) returns and a much larger audience by using the right tools for SM...at a fraction of the cost...and, you can put it on 24/7, at no extra cost. For those like me, that have used Seminars or Workshops successfully (I was the featured speaker at a national seminar on building energy efficient homes for about 10 years) as marketing tools, you know how effective they can be. You can use SM tools to get the same impact...for almost free.

Joe Villeneuve, President
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
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1

Ellen Burstyn Responded on 4/5/2010


I don't want to go to a poo drinking event.
Is it at Central Station?


http://www.fuzal.com
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1

Rich Lane Responded on 4/17/2010


I have personally have tried blogging, writing articles, Facebook, etc. None of these tools have produced a lead let alone a client. I recently read a book by Trump and recommends using these tools. I was rather surprised by this. I wonder if he uses the tools personally:-)
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 4/17/2010


Rich, I've been doing it for a while and I can tell you that it works great. You just need to incorporate the right steps in the right order. I use it for all of my businesses. If all you did was put your Profile on Facebook, blogged some, and wrote an article, you left out all the parts that connects these to each other.

Joe Villeneuve, President
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
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Brian Sandifer Responded on 4/18/2010


Social media is huge, you just have to harness it correctly.
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Joe Villeneuve Responded on 4/18/2010


Brian just said it all.

Joe Villeneuve, President
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
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11

Chris Davis Responded on 4/29/2010


Social media is first and foremost a popularity contest. If you have a way to convert your popularity into sales then you can get results - providing you can make yourself popular in the first place. Some products and services don't correlate closely with social popularity, so social media will fail to produce tangible results for those businesses.

Think about it: Between Jim's Oil Change Emporium and Joe's Expert Consulting Services, for which one will social media (being popular) make a difference? Also remember that this popularity is mostly virtual in nature and many of these virtual "friends" wouldn't even recognize each other if they crossed paths on the street. That means your method of converting sales also has to be mostly virtual in nature in order to take advantage of it.
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 4/30/2010


Chris, You're right...except the part where you infer that not everyone can benefit from this. Everyone can. The reason was actually stated by you...but can be stated much better. It is a popularity contest, but the reason is based on bing popular for your business expertise...not the implied social "virtual friendship". This is virtual...that's the advantage, not the curse. SM, if used correctly, and this includes how to convert this popularity, can put you and your expertise in front of millions of people...potentially. If you've ever done any seminars or classes you know the advantage of being in front of all those people. You are only in front of them for the limited time of the seminar though. SM allows you to be there 24/7, and again, if cone correctly, you can be up to date up to the minute. You can be spontaneous, but at the same time completely prepared.

If you never meet your clients...so what. This isn't a system that you use instead of your face-to-face marketing. This is an added marketing tool. If I can conduct business with people around the country, but never meet them, I'm not going to turn the business down. It still counts.

I've been in business, actually businesses, for over 30 years. My brother owns his own ad agency so I've been exposed to some great marketing concepts in action, and I have never found anything as effective as using SM for business.

Joe Villeneuve, President
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.co
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11

Chris Davis Responded on 4/30/2010


Hi Joe.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, I just don't agree that it's universally applicable.

Social media would probably be effective for a brand, eg: Ford, but for Joe the Ford Dealer almost all of his customers aren't going to buy a car unless they've visited his place of business, spoken in person with him or one of his employees, and actually touched the products. The product selection in this case is highly personal and closing the deal usually requires a good bit of personal touch. In almost all cases these customers will know of the dealership through traditional advertising or by knowing their physical location.

Products or services that require long-term relationships also don't do so well in this case. It's not impossible, but there just aren't many people that will commit to a $20M project over 5 years with a company that they aren't personally familiar with. Closing that deal is still going to require a lot of face time with the prospective client and they're going to want to personally know their contact points for the project.

Commodity businesses are another area that social media doesn't really fit. The oil change shop, the gas station on the corner, the bank downtown, the fast food restaurant, the dry cleaners....and on and on. Commodity businesses make up a huge section of the economy but by virtue of being a commodity they just aren't effective candidates for social media. There are always exceptions, but generally this is the case.
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 4/30/2010


Chris, Actually, if you use the concept of attraction marketing as an extension of SM, any and all of the businesses you mentioned as not being right for this will work. To use SM as a direct source of clients is very short term thinking. It is only one part of an entire system (4 basic steps) that surround the idea of information that turns any "visitor" into a client.

Joe Villeneuve, President
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.co
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Chris Davis Responded on 4/30/2010


But you also can't neglect the price of the customer. For a commodity business the per-customer price (in terms of both dollars and time) of social media is likely to be much higher than traditional advertising. Put enough time and money into social media and you can probably come up with at least one customer, but for many businesses the per-customer cost will be much cheaper and the results more reliable by using traditional marketing methods. And since payroll is reliably due twice per month, any method of marketing that provides reliable results for a price I can easily quantify is going to be the clear winner. I'm not a marketing guru, but as a business owner my decisions are mostly driven by predictability, reliability, stability, measurability, and repeatability. Social media isn't very strong at any of those, at least not yet.
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 4/30/2010


If the cost in both time and money using SM is higher than any other tool...you're doing it wrong. I use it for all of my businesses and it works great. I put in maybe an average of 35-40 minutes a day, and the cost to me is less than $100/month.

Joe Villeneuve, President
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.co
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Chris Davis Responded on 4/30/2010


So if I'm the owner of a dry cleaner, and I had $100 a month and 35-40 minutes per day to spend on social media, how many customers per month can I reasonably expect to land from that commitment? What if I spent the same commitment on newspaper advertisements, coupons, or increased signage at my location?

It all comes down to knowing the business and who their target audience is. Not every business' target audience is reached effectively through social media, just like not every business' target audience is reached effectively through TV commercials or billboards.

It sounds like you're trying to say that social media is an effective tool for any business no matter what, and the only reason it doesn't work in some cases is because they don't know what they're doing. That's like saying anyone can get customers from billboards, and if you don't then you just don't know what you're doing with them. That's just not realistic.
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Joe Villeneuve Responded on 4/30/2010


I am saying "social media is an effective tool for any business no matter what, and the only reason it doesn't work in some cases is because they don't know what they're doing". It is realistic. Asking me how many people that dry cleaner can expect depends on many factors...just like if I asked you how many people they can expect by using "newspaper advertisements, coupons, or increased signage at my location? "
Sometimes, you do advertising that compliments the existing marketing programs, but you can't put a number on it...but you know your clients increased once you started to use it. With that just said, it's very important to make sure I keep my costs down. I know I can reach 1000's times more people using the type of SM steps I use, and they will be a far larger percentage focused on my client type, where you can market using "newspaper advertisements, coupons, or increased signage" and a much smaller percentage of the people that see these ads have any chance of turning into business...and the cost is far, far less.
Joe Villeneuve, President
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/p/introduction.html
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Chris Davis Responded on 4/30/2010


"I am saying social media is an effective tool for any business no matter what, and the only reason it doesn't work in some cases is because they don't know what they're doing. It is realistic"

This is where we fundamentally disagree. You're marketing the idea of social media rather than addressing the realistic merits of its effectiveness.

Situational context and the target audience are always factors in the effectiveness of any marketing method. That's why Polident doesn't hang posters in daycare centers and why Fisher Price doesn't sponsor bingo night. Not because posters or sponsorships are ineffective, but because they know they won't effectively reach their target audience that way. Reverse the two situations and suddenly the message is being delivered to the target audience in a way that they are receptive to hearing it.

Social media only works if your target audience is there and they are receptive to hearing your message through that medium. To claim that this is realistic for every business out there is an indefensible position to take.
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 4/30/2010


I defend it to the end. I've never seen any business model that i couldn't work for. Having said that, that doesn't mean everyone can make it work for them. The reason though is almost always they don't know how to use it. Your statement that "Social media only works if your target audience is there and they are receptive to hearing your message through that medium", is absolutely correct. One of the most important parts of using it as part of the system is knowing where your market is...and every market is somewhere on the internet. Let me make this perfectly clear. You don't market through SM, you use it as part of your online (and off) campaign as your ever visible business resume. You have one on every SM site, but you use the discussion groups and your blog/websites as added tools as parts of the entire system. Using just one of these tools by itself is useless. Using them all together in a cohesive manner is how you do it correctly.

Joe Villeneuve, President
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/p/introduction.html
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6

Lisa Wilson Responded on 5/2/2010


Joe, I'm a bit late jumping into this conversation, but I have to disagree with you...to an extent.

SM marketing is not the "be all and end all" that you make it out to be, nor is it something that will work for every business model.

SM is simply another tool available to a business owner to market his business, but like any other marketing tool, it is an effective tool only if the business' target market is one that is likely active SM arena. For example, SM is a fantastic tool for bar/pub/nightclub owners, but it is ineffective (in general) for a company who specializes in heat controls and thermal conductors.

You have to know your market. It would be foolish--not to mention a waste of time and money--to jump on the SM bandwagon simply because "they" say everyone is, when your target market would be far more apt to read the local paper than log onto Facebook and thinks "tweet" is nothing more than the sound a bird makes.

Lisa
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31

Julie Sturgeon Responded on 5/4/2010


The original poster asked for examples of it working. I belong to an online professional group online and have for more than 10 years now, contributing to the conversation nearly every day. Most of us have never met in person. When I opened a side business in the recession, these folks were, and still are, the bulk of my customers because we have a strong online friendship. (Even so, it's taken three years to build to a point where I'm seeing steady money from this revenue stream). Since January, 10 percent of my business has come from referrals from this group. Social media doesn't happen overnight; merely announcing I'm here! I'm here! on Twitter a bazillion times a day is spamming. It requires building relationships and friendships, which takes real time.

But online friends are as loyalty as the ones who walk into your store every day.

My second boon was learning not when to use it but how -- getting training on things like how to make and edit a good video (most of what I see on YouTube makes me cringe), figuring out augmented reality, how to include an interactive map. Once I understood the tools, it didn't seem like such a strange new world.
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 5/4/2010


Julie understands. SM is not the end all but just a tool, as Lisa has said, but like Julie said you must know how to use it. The concept of just putting yourself on some SM site and expecting results is foolish. SM is a part of an online networking system that Julie is using correctly. SM is your professional resume, not your marketing campaign. You use it just like you would use your directory listing, or a business card, but with much more detail. The reason Julie has it right more than anything else is she is using it as a tool for her involvement with groups, discussions, and forums.
...and yes, this can be used for ANY business model, you just have to learn the mechanics and the connections between the different tools, and then where your clients are hiding. When you find them, show them who you are and what you're got. Actually, a company that specializes in heating controls and thermal conductors can benefit more from this than they might think. Any company, that is or has a specific knowledge/service base, will find using the SM systems very beneficial to their businesses.
The most important thing Julie did say though was her mention of how education plays a role. Without it you are "operating your vehicle without an instruction manual". When you crash, don't blame the vehicle.

Joe Villeneuve, President
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/p/introduction.html
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 5/4/2010


I just got a couple of emails asking me to explain the "system" I've been mentioning. I did, but that was over 100 posts ago, so I'll run the basics again.
First, this is all based on the business/individual projecting an "expertise/knowledge" in their field. There are many ways to do this, but your blog is the best tool for this.
The basic steps are: 1-Post your professional Profile on the SM sites, 2-Join, but DON'T participate in, discussion groups where you believe your clients are. You're not ready to answer the questions yet. You have the knowledge, but not the tools set up to turn them into relationships. Just monitor them for their content, and how others answer the questions. You are learning if in fact your clients may be here, and also how to and how NOT to answer questions...you know what I mean. 3-Set up your blogs. This is your main sales tool since it is your 24/7 presentation of your business. This shows your knowledge and also where most of your answers are...and where you will send them. 4-NOW, answer the questions. Turn them into conversations, not just answers. Julie said above how you can develop relationships this way and that is very true.
There is actually a 5th step...education. Following the numbers is great, but you need to learn how to use the rest of the tools to implement your plan.
Joe Villeneuve, President
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/p/introduction.html
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Chris Davis Responded on 5/4/2010


I can't help but be reminded of a common saying:

When all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.

Sometimes it's just more effective to use the screwdriver. Not because the hammer is faulty, but because it's not the right tool for the job.

You have to be an expert in your industry to understand how best to reach your target audience. Joe, you obviously are trying to project yourself as an expert in SM, and maybe you really are, but you still have to understand your client's market and their target audience before you can even begin to know whether SM is an effective solution for them. You have to understand the problem (the screw) before you can identify whether or not your hammer is a proper solution. Telling someone that a hammer is always a good tool to use on a screw, no matter what, is an obvious mistake. Sometimes SM is just not the right tool to use.

Maybe a more extreme example would help. If I need to excavate for a new basement, which tool should I use? I suppose I could spend an hour a day for 10 years digging that hole with a hammer, but wouldn't it be wiser to rent a bulldozer and leave the hammer at home for this one? The hammer salesman would naturally disagree, persisting on and on about how his hammer is a universal tool that's effective in any situation, but when you fully understand the problem at hand it's obvious that the hammer is not an effective solution to the problem.
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 5/4/2010


SM, by itself, is not a solution...it is a tool, just like your hammer and screwdriver. You're right when you say "you have to understand the client's market". The client already does, and with that said they will be able to implement SM into their marketing system of tools (like ads, flyers, email, billboards, radio, press releases, etc...) as part of their ad campaign. Nobody ever said SM was the only way to market, it's just a tool...but it's one of the most cost effective ones you'll find. If you understand the concept of attraction marketing you'd see how this is one of the best ways to implement it.

Joe Villeneuve, President
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/p/introduction.html
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Lisa Wilson Responded on 5/4/2010


Chris, you hit it on the head. SM can be an effective tool, but you have to know when to use it (and how, but that's a whole other topic).

Yes, monetarily speaking, SM is one of the cheapest methods of marketing, however, it is not the most effective across the board.

As with all marketing or advertising, you have to know who you are trying to reach, what their habits are and choose which marketing tool in your arsenal will garner you the greatest ROI. For some target markets SM is a perfect fit and will produce results. However, for others, SM is a waste of time and money.

There is NO "one size fits all" when it comes to marketing and to think otherwise is foolish.

Best advice is to know your customers/clients (or potential ones) and center your efforts around those things that you know will actually reach their eyeballs.

Joe, I understand and appreciate your enthusiasm, but although we are in the 21st century that does not mean everyone is wired (or wants to be). Whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, there are business whose client bases are such that even having a website (let alone SM marketing) would be pointless.

Best regards to all,
Lisa
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 5/5/2010


Lisa, You are correct...but I feel sorry for them. Their lack of true understanding of how it works, and how to work it for their business is a great opportunity missed.

Joe Villeneuve, President
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/p/introduction.html

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81

Brian Kennett Responded on 5/20/2010


Lisa,
I don't necessarily disagree with your analysis as it pertains to social, but I guess I'm curious as to what type or line of business has a client base that you believe precludes a web presence? Based on current demographics, etc I just can't think of a scenario where SOME type of web presence isn't a necessity. Clearly not every business needs a robust e-commerce solution or a social media solution, but not being "on line" seems to be a must.

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Zennie Abraham Responded on 5/21/2010


It's hard for me to know how to answer your question without knowing what you want to do. But that written, i call Social Networking "Social Broadcasting" because I am on a number of interconnected platforms I use to broadcast a message. It also helps protect my name online, which is essentially protecting me as a brand. Moreover, I stay connected with what is happening and can move in whatever direction I want to.
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Sophie Davis Responded on 5/25/2010


This is the example that social media, social engagement does work. You like metrics, you can see how many people responded to your question and concern.
Social media is not only Facebook and Twitter. It's all internet platform that encourages social engagement: blogs, forums, sites like this one, Youtube, etc...

Plus, companies can use it to do research. You can figure out what people are saying about a particular industry all around the world FOR FREE with Twitter.

Yes, social media doesn't follow the rules of regular advertising and marketing, because it's in the soft sell, creating relationships before making the sale, building a brand. You can't measure that immediately. It's in the long run.

I would advise you to take a look at how Gary Vaynerchuk built his company with social media. His book Crush It is truly amazing. He has a blog, a facebook and twitter page and it's not about just making friends, it's about creating relationships that might do different things: they might help you understand the needs and wants of customers, they might help you innovate, you might in fact sell them your product. They will buy it because they like you and because you care.

Your clients don't have time to make friends with their customers? They really should. That's business 101!

Sophie Davis - self-help blogger
www.utimes100.com
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Rick Hassan Responded on 5/26/2010


Social Media is going to work... It is still somewhere in between and not mature enough. Take a look at www.evertweet.com where we have put together an application for entrepreneurs of all walks of life who can generate leads and send tweets to their target audience. The tool allows you to strategize without wasting your precious time.

For more informaion please contact me

Rick Hassan
www.EverTweet.com
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 6/5/2010


Social Media works right now...the "somewhere in between" is really the lack of understanding of what social media is and how it works. Too many people think of Twiiter as social media, and though this is a form of it (useless for business...too many "twitts on it) there are so many other sites that are business focused to worry about Twitter. You have to have a plan that uses sites like FaceBook, PartnerUp, LinkedIn and so on. This is only a small part of the plan though. The rest of the plan comes from education yourself on the other aspects related to these sites such as blogs, eBooks, article marketing, video and more. Once I figured this out, I was able to take all of this to a new level...and the rst, as they say, is history.

Joe Villeneuve
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://marketyourselffirst.blogspot.com/
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
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Carlos Yarritu Responded on 6/18/2010


Check out www.businessdoneeasy.com. This website allows you to promote yourself as an expert in your industry and field of business. I hope this helps.

Carlos
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Julie Sturgeon Responded on 6/18/2010


No offense, Carlos, but you just gave us an excellent example of how not to use social media. We're having a conversation, and you pop in with a sales message as your contribution to the dialogue. Then small-business owners wonder why they didn't see their sales jump, and declare that social media doesn't work.
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Julie Sturgeon Responded on 6/18/2010


No offense, Carlos, but you just gave us an excellent example of how not to use social media. We're having a conversation, and you pop in with a sales message as your contribution to the dialogue. Then small-business owners wonder why they didn't see their sales jump, and declare that social media doesn't work.
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Julie Sturgeon Responded on 6/18/2010


And I just revealed that I didn't pay attention when hitting the send button ...
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 6/18/2010


Julie, Good point. When I'm showing people how to use social media the correct way, one of the 5 basic steps includes step 2: Monitor, but don't reply to discussions". The reason is partly to find out where your market is, partly to learn what your market is looking for then build your blog accordingly, but mostly to learn how and how not to answer the questions to be effective.

Joe Villeneuve
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://marketyourselffirst.blogspot.com/
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
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Sophie Davis Responded on 6/18/2010


I don't agree with not replying. I would actually say Monitor, reply but DON'T SELL. In order to do that, businesses have to CARE about their customers and see them as human beings and not solely purchasers.
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Sophie, If you read all the steps you will see that the last one does say "participate". The reason I don't recommend doing more in step two is because you're not ready yet. I assume you have the answers toe the questions, but you need your blog set up in order to prove your expertise and as a tool to explain in greater detail. Once your blog is set up (step 3), your are ready to answer the questions. If you take a look at my ebook you'll see the process in greater detail. Joe Villeneuve joe@3venterprises.ws http://marketyourselffirst.blogspot.com/ http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/ - Joe Villeneuve 297 on 6/26/2010

 
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1

Sean Deshler Responded on 6/23/2010


In our experience, we have found that social media is more delayed and pervasive in how it contributes to brand marketing than typical direct response campaigns. I know the discussion is about whether or not social media can generate and qualify leads, but I think there are some other aspects of this that should be considered. Below are a list of ways we have successfully utilized social networks to benefit businesses besides direct response marketing:

- buzz campaigns to build anticipation for the launch of a new product / service
- syndicating announcements about product / service upgrades (ie upsell opportunities) to existing customers
- getting customer feedback about an existing offering
- getting customer input on key satisfiers for products / services under development
- identifying NPI opportunities
- identifying new markets for an existing product or service
- boost brand exposure, enhancing brand personality, etc/

So while I'd agree that social media "friendvertising" is an area where ROI is difficult to measure in terms of direct response, the critical mass of attention focused on social media platforms has and will great many opportunities for business developments.

Sean Deshler
BrandingVine Marketing Services
http://www.brandingvine.com
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Aaron Allen Responded on 6/26/2010


for victoria (if she is still reading) I am a massage therapist who spends very little time on facebook though I occasionally post comments which garner responses and therefore keep my clients thinking about me in between sessions. this most definitely has driven sales amongst my client base as well as providing me a google listing for those looking for me specifically. who knows how many people have been exposed to my page through friending/fan links, and also, the interaction on my page provides a frame of reference and reliable references (who can be engaged for specific questioning) for uninitiated customers who may be unsure about approaching a new therapist. I dont rely on facebook to do my marketing for me and am still invested in networking and word of mouth incentives, but there can be no doubt that my social media networking has paid dividends comparatively to the amount of time it took me to set up a facebook page.
www.facebook.com/affordablemassage
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Kyle Milliken Responded on 7/27/2010


You cant bend ANY product to fit within SM and be successful, you must pick and choose from those which easily translate over.
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 7/27/2010


SM is an opportunity for ANY and ALL businesses models to use effectively. You can bend SM because it is very flexible. There are so many tools and applications, and combinations available that it is possible to use SM for any business. Now, having said that, it still means the person/business using it must learn how and then actually act on the steps needed to take advantage of endless opportunities offered through SM. I find the people that are not successful at it are the ones that try to do it from the hip, or with very limited knowledge of what can be done and how to do it. Also, too many people start by trying to use Twitter, are unsuccessful, and blame the tool instead of understanding that although you can use Twitter, it is probably the least effective of any SM tool on the planet...it's just the most familiar.

Joe Villeneuve
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://marketyourselffirst.blogspot.com/
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
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Kyle Milliken Responded on 7/27/2010


Joe,

Social media requires a specific type of business model. When i look at business which have used social media effectively i see that most of them had over-hauls of their corporate identity around the same time they integrated their SM practices. You cant just use social media as advertisement feeds, you need to engage people directly. Also, business which start with SM in their model initially are better positioned to benefit from it.

I think a lot of the posters here are a bit jaded, for example Victoria, who does she consult for? Knowing this could give a lot of insight into why SM seems to not work for her industry.

Social media takes a completely different approach then traditional advertising. You actually have to have an entity, a persona, and you need to have something that works with SM. If you only offer one type of service, say plumbing, then your not going to have much success because all you will have to talk about is plumbing, and who wants to "friend and subscribe" to a plumbing advertisement stream? You need to have novelty in order to be successful in social media, you need to stop looking a "brain washed gen y'ers" and realize that there are minds to access and exploits to have, if you know how to access them.

Here is an example of a local small business using SM in proper measure with it's goals:
http://hitchcockrestaurant.com/
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bainbridge-Island-WA/Hitchcock/108064879236072
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 7/27/2010


A business model requires a specific type of SM. You can start it at any point in the life of a company. A plumber actually can be successful using SM if they understand what approach to use and how to go about using it. You are correct when you say you must have a persona...that is how you present yourself as a knowledgeable source. There are two reasons why people are on the internet...for information and to buy something. When you provide both, you win.

Joe Villeneuve
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://marketyourselffirst.blogspot.com/
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com/
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1

Ivan Cavric Responded on 7/28/2010


I've enjoyed reading your thoughts. Very interesting way of looking at it.
Ivan Cavric
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Anthony Edward Responded on 7/30/2010


Victoria, Social Media does work! Maybe not for all types of Businesses. But I have successfully branded, built relationships, and generated new clients and sales with social media.
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Daniel Jones Responded on 8/13/2010


Victoria, I can see why you may perceive SM as as an upstart with no viable future. If all you are doing is simply announcing your presence to the world in a haphazard fashion you will invariably receive haphazard results. But if you have a cross-marketing strategy and a sound business plan you can not only expand your list of viable contacts but also measure the extent of it's effectiveness. Using Facebook tagged to Twitter and offering incentives you can track the influence of one upon the other over a given period. And the cardinal rule, in my opinion, is to provide value for money in any form. One of the best is to be a source of reliable information. I would also recommend refraining from any form of spam. I personally refrain from tweeting my destination URL but rather leave that to my profile page. The tweets themselves merely contain news and info. That way only people with a sincere interest bother to view the profile and find my link. One good contact is better than hundreds of spammers who most likely are merely looking to sell you something of their own anyway.
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84

Victoria Garcia Responded on 9/20/2010


Finally, Aaron responds with a fact-based example of someone who has gotten new clients for his massage business! All this talk is just hot air if you can't be specific in the number of new clients or widgets you have sold.

There is a lot of magical thinking going on. "If you do it right" "if you know exactly how to do it" "it will work if you do it long enough" Do all of you evangelicals have the time to do that? The resources? My clients don't, they just don't want to be left out

Who made money during the 1848 gold rush? Not the miners. It was the people selling picks to the miners.

Here's the deal as far as I can see it. SMM creates inbound links. That is where the magic is, not in spending a lot of time pounding away every time something interesting to you happens.
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That is the magic as well as an SEO strategy of being able to create relevant backlinks to your client's site, not only are they being seen on the various social sites but having these backlinks helps in their overall Google ranking. - Christine Best 1 on 10/6/2010

 
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 9/20/2010


Victoria, If you would like to talk about this, instead of labeling all of us that have had success with SM as "people selling picks to miners", I would be more than happy to do so...at no charge.

Joe Villeneuve
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://marketyourselffirst.blogspot.com/
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com
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Mark Bantigue Responded on 9/21/2010


very interesting exchanges. just like branding, there are tangible and intangible aspects. there is indispensable in-person networking, yet there is the follow up or even first-touch online referrals and immediate network of our links. in Jan Jantsch's "Referral Engine" the combination of high tech (SM) and high touch (in-person networking) is the complete picture. one without the other is like popcorn without butter/salt -- good enough but not delicious. and i want everyone to be delicious ;-]
peace and health.
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Jason Baudendistel Responded on 10/4/2010


I havent had any success with social Media my Business has gotten all of its sales from word of mouth and me paying for advertising Its a record label though so maybe its true that no one buys music anymore..lol
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Niccolinas Soto Responded on 10/4/2010


Victoria -

Social Media is certainly not a path to overnight success. It does take patience, and more importantly a LOT of your time. It moves so quickly (.. ALA Twitter!) that even missing a few days of social engaging is like missing months. There is some success you can have on there, but its up to you. Those who have the time to post/tweet and engage on a daily basis seem to have better success, as well as those with a loyal following. Word of mouth and creating a buzz is still vital to your business success. More and more social networks are popping up every day, and who has the time to tweet 24/7? I certainly don't. It can help build you a following, but its not something you can simply join and forget. It takes a LOT of effort and time.
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 10/4/2010


It takes a lot less time than you are making it out to be. You can be very successful with less than an hour a week...if you know where to be and what to (and what NOT to) post. If you are familiar with enough different SM mediums, then you just pick the the one(s) that fits your business model and available time/schedule. It's really pretty easy. The only thing that takes a little time in the beginning is the education of how to do it, but if you don't have time for education, then you don't belong in any business...you'll always be behind and at a disadvantage with those that make the time.

Joe Villeneuve
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://marketyourselffirst.blogspot.com/
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com
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Jason Baudendistel Responded on 10/4/2010


Joe I'm gonna check out your blog any places you suggest I can look up to learn my way?
Jason Baudendistel CEO Bored Student Records
www.myspace.com/boredstudent
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297

Joe Villeneuve Responded on 10/5/2010


Yes. Here is the group I joined about a year ago and never regretted it. They got me up to speed in a short period of time and I learn something new every month. They are continually adding new information to the already loaded sources and I marvel at just how much is there for the taking. IT might take about a month or two before you start weeing results, but what else are you going to do during those two months that will bring the same results. I can answer that now...nothing.

http://www.sevenfiguremastermindteam.com/previewTemplate/JoeVilleneuve/48/16

Joe Villeneuve
joe@3venterprises.ws
http://marketyourselffirst.blogspot.com/
http://socialmarketingeducation.blogspot.com
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Richard Weston Smith Responded on 10/6/2010


Victoria, I think it's important to understand that Social Networking is but a youngster! It's only seven years old and has a lot of growing to do. Twitter is fine - for certain things. Facebook has catapulted us (like it or not) into the networking world, but it was conceived as a "friends and family" grade network and to a large extent, still is. We as businesses are simply trying to make it work for our needs - something it's actually not very good at! As social networking evolves, it's less a matter of "he who has the most friends wins" and more about who has the most relevance. Private social networks, as offered by SocialGO (the company I work for) are all about quality, not quantity. What is important is getting your community on line, not about the size of the community. A network of 250 members of a church congregation is as valuable to the pastor as a network of 2,500 customers to a small business, or 75 members of a hang gliding club. Perhaps it is not always about getting new business, but keeping existing business, recruiting new customers by virtue of having a vibrant and engaged community around your product that works like a PR machine. We believe that in a couple of years, having a "community" tab on your website will be de-rigeur. In fact, the social network will become the web-site. For instance, this organic baby clothing company in New Zealand has a nice website that looks pretty normal ( http://www.earthlings.co.nz/ ) but click on the "community" tab and you are taken to her social network. There, in a space that looks like it is part of her website, she has 1,000 of her customers all chatting, creating special interest groups, organizing events and get togethers at TGI Fridays. She is advertising to them (and generating revenue by selling advertising on her site), giving them special offers, she can e-mail them all with a single click and is keeping her customers close to her. This sort of integration into her business would simply not be possible on Facebook. She does very little to make this happen, as a social network is pretty much self running once you have a critical mass. The fact is, a social network is like a cocktail party as opposed to a lecture. We are used to "lecturing" our clients but now we can let them chat among themselves in a venue provided by us. We are all social animals and social networking is simply about businesses "socializing" better. I hope this point of view is helpful to you! With kind regards, Richard
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Antoinette Raynes Responded on 10/6/2010


The education on human interaction & behavior during this thread of conversations has been invaluable! Thanks so very much to everyone. You have added to my own education and to my SM education. Looking forward to the future discussions..... wow..... just wow....
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Andrew Bryson Responded on 10/14/2010


I'm not SM expert, but isn't what you are doing RIGHT now considered social media? Through this medium, JV is proving himself to be a SM expert - thus he's getting his name out, which is half the battle when building relationships. My short but sweet two cents.
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Lori Paul Responded on 10/14/2010


I am with Joe Villenueve 100% on this topic. About a year and a half ago, I was handed an opportunity to step back from the rigors of a full time litigation practice and I devoted my time to learning as much as I could about social media - I think, way back then, the term d'jour was social networking. Whatever. Although I don't claim to be an expert in SM, when it comes to small firm attorneys, I have found myself becoming the type of "expert" that Joe talked about. This is producing legitimate leads with other professionals that I don't think would have materialized otherwise; e.g., consulting opportunities and the beginnings of a potential new career helping other attorneys manage their SM (which, admittedly, can be time-consuming).

Last, I would like to point out that I have traditionally operated on a very tight budget. It's easy to say get out there and do this or that, but the this or that of a lot of traditional marketing costs a ton of dough. A colleague of mine once sunk $15,000 into a marketing consulting (pre-SM days) and the person did nothing for her. Another familiar traditional marketing tool - hard copy Yellow Pages - can easily cost in excess of $1,000 per month and generate junk callers. SM is comparatively inexpensive as a form of marketing one's business, and I find the connections that I am making to be much more personal and substantive.
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David Lanagan Responded on 10/17/2010


I have an interesting case study:

My business has been built almost solely on social media concepts applied in creative ways. My rules to success in this medium have been simple.

1. Believe in what you are saying (and articulate it concisely)
2. Provide real value to the community
3. Give credit to others and honestly consider them (don't be self-serving- "social" is a communal effort)

Social media is ultimately about building and maintaining a visible reputation that will boast results organically. It should be treated more like PR than marketing.
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Todd Walker Responded on 10/22/2010


We use social networking in many extremely valuable ways. The most significant of which I wouldn't disclose to a forum because they are extremely strategic and powerful. I think part of what you may be seeking isn't something you can find out from others, but instead from what you can envision as a out side the box marketer. I like meterics, but metrics are always descriptive, and only predictive when you are doing the same thing under the same circumstances.
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Luis Casstle Responded on 10/28/2010


Funny, I just read this and then came across this by reading through someones site:

Small Businesses Are Taking Tentative Steps Toward Online Networking:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/business/smallbusiness/04sbiz.html?_r=1&8dpc
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Cheryl Lynn Responded on 10/28/2010


Victoria, I hired someone from Twitter actually. I also saw them engaged in there always giving great content. THey where focus in services acually VA services and they where also giving great stuff. I believe if you show your audience you can do the work and you build a trusting relationship...you WILL get business. I believe it works!
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La Vi Responded on 11/18/2010


mbrin you are making no sense. To be " in it to win it" means to try new tings like buy a lottery ticket. Cant win unless you buy one correct me if I am wrong. Same is true of life.

I sell content and Knowledge what do you sell? Keep in mind that what I sell cost me nothing but time to learn. It's a win win people learn from us, get social media management, workshops, blog set up and design and I get to do what I love.

Maybe you see twitter as a tool to tell others what they ate for lunch. I have late braking news most don't they are getting their blog post noticed. most people are living a dream that otherwise would not exists if not for New Media. The call it New Media for a reason.
________
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[url=http://www.dublinovernight.com/dublin-hotels.html]hotels in dublin[/url]
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Heidi Hoffbauer Responded on 2/3/2011


Mobile Media Works!!!
Text: HotelHeidi
To: 90210
This is my "Green" mobile Media business card. The way technology is advancing, everything is going to be available on the cell phone.
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Sander Levin Responded on 6/20/2011


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Sander Levin Responded on 6/20/2011


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Sander Levin Responded on 6/20/2011


Social Media is a second most traffic getter source for me it can be done that you just need to participate into the Groups and provide every piece of information they just needed. have a fun for a little time that your users dont feel boring.
gudka
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